152 replies to this topic

[Amidatelion]

GL isn't much harder than TOW... Really, the only downside the GL has compared to TOW is range... 

 

The GL actually has a longer remote-detonatable range than the TOW, but while that is an upside in one case "at those ranges" it is a downside, because it has a longer downtime. It is also slower to the target and bounces off surfaces instead of detonating- again, an advantage, but one with a marked ease-of-use aspect.

 

Walk speed is irrelevant. 

 

Get this man into a Fight Club.

 

Flak hurts, but all one needs to do is cause a miss and you've immediately decreased their DPS immensely.

 

Cause a miss by what... dodging? That thing both can do? Besides which, the TOW+Flak combo is more suited to chaining L- and R- dodges and breaking turn caps as you can set it up that one is always up at the end of a dodge-boost sequence. The only weapon than can even remotely to that on the Infil is the Heat Cannon uncharged, which does less damage and is harder to hit. Because of the higher downtime of the GL, you also won't have the staggered uptime of the Flak+Tow combo.

 

Look, I main the Infil, but if you put me in an Infil against me in a Scout, I'd bet on Scout me in a 1 v 1, barring Infil me getting the drop. If Scout me got the drop, it would be over even faster. 

[Odinous]

The combination of Incin+Tech is OP,not the mechs by themselves..just saying..

[CrimsonKaim]

Why are you making comments on Flak supposedly being extremely overpowered when you just openly admitted that you've ignored the huge nerfs it's had and don't even use the weapon in the first place?

 

"Huge Nerf" What is better, Flak or EOC? Flak ofcourse. It doesn't matter if it got a huge nerf if it is still one of the most powerful weapons, or even the most powerful weapon ingame. You simply can't do anything wrong with a damn Flak.

 

Why don't I use it? Cause of principles and respect + Infiltrator hasn't got it.

[CrimsonKaim]

 

 A good sense of balance, in my opinion, is one where something SEEMS overpowered but really is not. 

 

The only real overpowered mechs so far are ...

 

 

....

[n3onfx]

C classes in general have a tad too much health. Incin and vulcan gren might be more manageable if they had less health. Yes I know they trade mobility for health but in a team environment you won't get the jump on a lone C class unless their team fails, and at that point it's irrelevant if that mech is an A, B or C class (even though you could argue that the A has a higher chance of escaping if he sees you, which is countered by the fact that he has a much higher chance of dying if he does not).

 

Vulcan gren in particular is insane, in a team situation an Incinerator will be better but in a 1v1 scenario the vulcan gren is just flat out crazy in terms of health and damage output, especially given it has one of the best secondaries for corner play coupled with one of the highest hitscan dps weapon. You can still die even if you get a jump on him, and the fact that he can't retreat as fast as an A class is irrelevant given he has no incentive to retreat.

 

The Vanguard is more manageable, the Incinerator is actually not that hard if you jump him alone, Brawlers are weird given how slowly they move making fights dip heavily on one side or another depending on if they can face you quickly enough or not. Rocketeers on the other hand are a piece of cake alone. The Grenadier is really the one that shines the most in both team and solo fights, but is still outclassed by the Incinerator in teamplay due to the synergy with the Tech.

[Ker4u]

didn't read anything after first paragraph because these mechs have different roles, you cant just compare stats like that.

[RedVan]

The GL actually has a longer remote-detonatable range than the TOW, but while that is an upside in one case "at those ranges" it is a downside, because it has a longer downtime. It is also slower to the target and bounces off surfaces instead of detonating- again, an advantage, but one with a marked ease-of-use aspect.

 

 

Get this man into a Fight Club.

 

 

Cause a miss by what... dodging? That thing both can do? Besides which, the TOW+Flak combo is more suited to chaining L- and R- dodges and breaking turn caps as you can set it up that one is always up at the end of a dodge-boost sequence. The only weapon than can even remotely to that on the Infil is the Heat Cannon uncharged, which does less damage and is harder to hit. Because of the higher downtime of the GL, you also won't have the staggered uptime of the Flak+Tow combo.

 

Look, I main the Infil, but if you put me in an Infil against me in a Scout, I'd bet on Scout me in a 1 v 1, barring Infil me getting the drop. If Scout me got the drop, it would be over even faster. 

 

Dodging a flak significantly decreases their DPS, compared to a sustained weapon which can immediately start DPSing again.  Yes, in the corner game the flak user can do a quick burst and be back under cover, but even that can be dodged...

[TheVulong]

C classes in general have a tad too much health. Incin and vulcan gren might be more manageable if they had less health. 

It's not the issue of the C class having too much health but the issue of the A class not having enough. Yet on the other hand the A class has the best synergy with Air Comressor. Also, the best solution for the current Gren would be taking away the Vulcan and replacing it with something that has sub-100 DPS. 

[n3onfx]

It's not the issue of the C class having too much health but the issue of the A class not having enough. Yet on the other hand the A class has the best synergy with Air Comressor. Also, the best solution for the current Gren would be taking away the Vulcan and replacing it with something that has sub-100 DPS. 

 

Maybe it's  that yeah, C classes feel a lot more overwhelming when facing them in A than in B. But again, B classes feel line when playing A.

[Hyginos]

Dodging a flak significantly decreases their DPS, compared to a sustained weapon which can immediately start DPSing again.  Yes, in the corner game the flak user can do a quick burst and be back under cover, but even that can be dodged...

 

The consequesnce of not evading an AR/SMC around a corner is much less than failing to evade a fade-away flak.

 

Also, can't dps through a wall. If a flak fights an smc in corners, the onus is on the smc to force the flak into open dpsing, otherwise the smc will get chunked to death around the corners..

[RedVan]

The consequesnce of not evading an AR/SMC around a corner is much less than failing to evade a fade-away flak.

 

Also, can't dps through a wall. If a flak fights an smc in corners, the onus is on the smc to force the flak into open dpsing, otherwise the smc will get chunked to death around the corners..

Yes, there is more consequence to not evading a flak.  That's kind of my point.  When you DO evade the flak, you've saved that much HP, vs evading a sustain weapon, where you're only saving yourself a couple HP.  So the goal is to make the flak player miss (which is very possible), while maintaining sustain on him (also very possible).  In a 1v1 corner situation, yeah, flak scout has an advantage, but that can be easily overcome if truly a 1v1 situation.  In most other situations, sustain and the huge GL splash are far more advantageous.  Especially that GL splash.  Especially in the corner game, the GL fairs far better than TOW.

 

From another thread:

 

 

TOW and GL changes

 

...

 

Second would be to slightly decrease the splash radius on the GL at present it can hit mechs with its splash about 1 dodge length away (using A class model) meaning that aiming it takes very little other than shooting where the mech was and pressing right mouse button for some free damage (decreasing the splash radius makes this far less effective without taking away a lot of the advantages of the weapon).

[OmegaNull]

Why are you making comments on Flak supposedly being extremely overpowered when you just openly admitted that you've ignored the huge nerfs it's had and don't even use the weapon in the first place?

Exactly. Leave the scout alone!

[MomOw]

Exactly. Leave the scout alone!

 

As already said before the issue with scout is the way good players can pub stomp with it.

Why not just limiting the mech selection to a naked fred when you log in a server which MMR is 200 below yours and below 1700 ? You sure would stomp, but other players won't feel helpless (or maybe they will accuse you of aimbot or other hack, but that's it).

[RedVan]

As already said before the issue with scout is the way good players can pub stomp with it.

Why not just limiting the mech selection to a naked fred when you log in a server which MMR is 200 below yours and below 1700 ? You sure would stomp, but other players won't feel helpless (or maybe they will accuse you of aimbot or other hack, but that's it).

 

Good players will pub stomp with anything.  That's a terrible indication of whether something is OP or not.

Edited by RedVan, 25 March 2015 - 06:44 AM.

[MomOw]

Yup but when you play a partially equipped Fred against a good player in a naked Fred (knowing that he's not cheating), you really feel different than being pubstomped by a scout. You understand that you have to learn and you may try to copy the good player because you have the same mech !

[RedVan]

Yup but when you play a partially equipped Fred against a good player in a naked Fred (knowing that he's not cheating), you really feel different than being pubstomped by a scout. You understand that you have to learn and you may try to copy the good player because you have the same mech !

 

I can see that, however, low MMR doesn't necessarily mean they don't have a lot unlocked.  There is very little relation between MMR and number of unlocks.

[Silverfire]

As already said before the issue with scout is the way good players can pub stomp with it.
Why not just limiting the mech selection to a naked fred when you log in a server which MMR is 200 below yours and below 1700 ? You sure would stomp, but other players won't feel helpless (or maybe they will accuse you of aimbot or other hack, but that's it).

I could pubstomp in a G2 Assault, and I have. G2 Assault is regarded as one of the least "good" mechs in the game. Mech don't matter as long as pilot is competent. And there's not necessarily a correlation between MMR and time played.

Edited by Silverfire, 25 March 2015 - 07:44 AM.

[MomOw]

Yep you are true, but when you get pubstomped by a scout it feels even more unfair (i.e. you can't even hit it with a tow).

 

I'm not talking about facts, but feelings ;-)

Edited by MomOw, 26 March 2015 - 04:22 AM.

[Nov8tr]

The tech never should have been in the game in the first place. It has no place in this type of game. It imbalances the game and everyone knows it. I'd prefer it just be removed from the game. At minimum it needs a lot of tweaking. Not a little. A LOT.

[Z1Alpha]

I think the only OP mech is the Incinerator. I complain about C's in general, but I'm just bad. From a gameplay standpoint Incin is definitely OP. The blast radius tied with not overheating is crazy. Tech isn't OP, but it changes the gameplay drastically in someway, making your team a wave cause they can keep going. I sadly don't have any suggestions for either of those two, since I don't play them.

[CrimsonKaim]

I think we all can agree of the Inci beeing OP. Atleast that.

Infinite shooting
Huge splash radius
Highest p4p4 dps
Fast AF

Now for those of you telling me I can't compare two mechs if they have different roles. Do you think matches are devided up by mechs? Like Sustained or burst or X class mechs only games?
Ofcouree I can compare them otherwise only the same mechs with the same loadout can be compared with this argumentation. Oh they somehow look pretty similar!

Side note: Birst dmg of Eoc equals more or less 1-2 seconds of the most DPS/sustained weapons.
And Flak has more dps than eoc while and is even far more easy to hit.

[Guns_N_Rozer]

The idea of sustained vs burst is one that deserves to be discussed. At the moment, sustained is good, but not broken. It may be too good, but it is not game breaking. Mechs like heat infil are still viable at high tier play. Rev gren is another example of a very viable burst mech. The idea that piloting a sustained mech takes no skill whatsoever is totally misguided. You do not suddenly become the best player in the game when you hop in an assault. If you are getting much lower scores in an infil vs the CRT, maybe you're just bad at infil. Just my two cents. Also, fake. I really want to 1v1 you. Any mech you want. I'll be back to my setup on Friday. Hope to meet you then. GGs.

Merl

Fake accept the challenge , he called me   

[Guns_N_Rozer]

i think there is no OP mech.....only it's depend on player skill .every mech is powerful .

Assault is kinda OP 

[Flifang]

A topic like this is really difficult to dispute because a lot of it is about perspective. more so than my base skill in a mech rises, I have found it's more of my skill against a mech rises more substantially. A few months ago certain players in their a-classes gave me the hardest time in my G2 raider, but now I notice that I hit my shots more often not just on those players in that mech but also anyone else playing that particular mech. This is also why me of all people have such a hard time fighting other G2 raiders: because still even now so few people play it I hardly ever have a chance to face one in battle as regularly as say a scout.

 

This as well as taking into account teammates, map, playstyle, objective, loadout, skill difference, positioning, ect.. This topic might as well be unresolvable.

But that's just my current opinion.

[CrimsonKaim]

I think I missed an important part!

 

 

By OP I do not necessarily mean the DPS or the burst or damage or any stats. By OP I mean the comparison between skill required and reward. The OP mechs/weapons are these with less skill required while having the same reward as 'higher' skill weapons. 

 

Low skill weapons -> Low reward and that's NOT the case. That is what I am trying to change

[Brawler_Yukon]

This entire thread confirms for me that FakeName is an elitist with no sense of actual balance, and that any deviation from 1-1 k/d is bad design. On topic, o the Incin is not Op, Fred is not OP, Tech is not OP, none of the mechs are OP, by definition if it were OP you'd only see people using it, which isn't true because of two reasons, 1) It's isn't OP, there are multiple ways of dealing with them, you're just bad, and this is coming from a 1200 mmr player, and 2) personal preference. This entire thread is just for the sake of echochambers, and is entirely based on ignoring the actual game. None of the mechs in game are OP, the only thing OP is top tier players because they got gud.

[EM1O]

TL/DR

G2Raider requires no skill is too OP.

 

this makes no sense. you can buttrape anyone in a nekkid fred or any mech if you are skilled. as i've posited previously, get rid of the Tech, or make the Tech the only means for in-game repair including elimination of the glory-balls too. Tech in this manner would become the most powerful niche-mech in the game, and the maintenance of its safety and availability would become crucial to the battle and ultimate victory. past fun comps where there was 1 C class and the balance of the teams were Techs offer astounding evidence to this proposition.

 

absolutely no other changes would be necessary to the structure of this game, to completely change its meta, and give the community a totally new game.

Edited by EM1O, 28 March 2015 - 04:07 AM.

[Viskovitz]

I�ve been playing with the incin lately and I don�t think it�s OP.... I still suck as always 

[PoopSlinger]

A topic like this is really difficult to dispute because a lot of it is about perspective. more so than my base skill in a mech rises, I have found it's more of my skill against a mech rises more substantially. A few months ago certain players in their a-classes gave me the hardest time in my G2 raider, but now I notice that I hit my shots more often not just on those players in that mech but also anyone else playing that particular mech. This is also why me of all people have such a hard time fighting other G2 raiders: because still even now so few people play it I hardly ever have a chance to face one in battle as regularly as say a scout.

 

This as well as taking into account teammates, map, playstyle, objective, loadout, skill difference, positioning, ect.. This topic might as well be unresolvable.

But that's just my current opinion.

Throw down, central.   I'll give you a g2raider fight.

[Jelooboi]

Throw down, central.   I'll give you a g2raider fight.

poopslinger do you even?

[Scow2]

I don't contest that the Assault is a mech that's very easy to drive and get points with. However, the Assault is only a 'problem' for people who don't really know how to play the game. It's a straightforward mech that kicks ass without many tricks. But it's not OP - once you learn how to play, its weaknesses become a LOT more apparent.

 

The tech and Incinerator are not OP (Well, the Incinerator might be, but I've not seen it), but they monopolize their roles, making them really stand out against the other mechs.

 

 

I think I missed an important part!

 

 

By OP I do not necessarily mean the DPS or the burst or damage or any stats. By OP I mean the comparison between skill required and reward. The OP mechs/weapons are these with less skill required while having the same reward as 'higher' skill weapons. 

 

Low skill weapons -> Low reward and that's NOT the case. That is what I am trying to change

 

That's actually sort of the point of these mechs. You don't need a lot of skill to get points with them... but that simple playstyle can only take you so far.

 

No, not all classes are designed to be equal at all levels, in order to have the game accommodate all levels of skill and playstyles. Some are simple "skill gate" mechs, like the Assault. Others, like the Incinerator, are difficult to play, but once you do have the skill to play them, they're completely awesome. The returns on investment are not equal. You get diminishing returns in reward as you improve with the 'simpler' mechs such as the Assault, while the more complex mechs give greater returns as you increase in skill.

Edited by Scow2, 02 April 2015 - 08:05 AM.

[nepacaka]

Flak is OK

for example, miniflak has a highest potencial DPS, but actually you never realise this DPS in real fight, due the falloff value + spread (40m for mini-flak), most of time you never deal pure 48 dmg per shot.

 

similar to flak, you can deal 120 dmg only if you stand face-to-face to enemy. you never shoot 100% acuracy with flak.

 

Don't forget about brawler. Any Flak rebalancing make him useless with flak.

Edited by nepacaka, 02 April 2015 - 08:44 AM.

[Superkamikazee]

When you're in a Bruiser, everything is OP. Much sad. 

[BigTittys88]

People are just jumping on the incinerator Op bandwagon.

 It's supposedly OP papa primary does less max dps than an smc after the lastest patch . The papa overheat in 2 second unlike the smc , so you actually need to take a long break to fire off the heat, reducing further it's dps, and you need to land the secondary to do any damage. When you add the windup speed, you further reduce the practical dps.  The slow secondary can't hit any flying target unless at point blank range, and with its slow moving speed and obviousness and damage fall off, it's a terrible mid to long range projective, and It's only viable at close range.  This mech is arguably the worst for 1v1 because all you have to do is jump and air dodge to avoid the the majority of it's damaging ability. Without a tech ,most other mechs will contribute in group fights more. This mech is only viable when you have a tech .

 

Scout has the mini flak cannon, which is the primary weapon with the most DPS ( 125!) in the game. It has basically the same  range as the Point D Vulcan , but the mini flak actually does more sustained dps and without the windup it effectively works as a burst weapon as well. 

Edited by BigTittys88, 02 April 2015 - 09:53 AM.

[shosca]

We don't have enough data to be able to conclude positively which mech/weapon combos are OP, or more effective than others. We do have some numbers but they don't measure directly anything, all they do is somewhat half way confirm our suspicions. We need to have KPU, KPH, SPH, playtime, accuracy, avg. mmr ratings, etc.. for each mech combo to be able to effectively say this and this combo is too powerful.

Edited by shosca, 02 April 2015 - 09:55 AM.

[Panzermanathod]

I main the Incinerator and I currently have a higher K/DR on my Reaper and Assault than it. I've been killed by lone mechs with a Papa Inc that got the drop on me. Meanwhile with a Reaper I enjoy more relative saftey sniping from a distance, and the Assault... I dunno, I just get a better K/DR with that.

 

Conversely, I'm terrible with the Raider and my K/DR isn't really good with it, and my other mech is a Tech... which has the lowest K/DR of my mechs.

[m0bieduck]

IMO, C classes in general are op, especially Vulcan gren and pappa incin. The other op mechs are high skill cepieng mechs like the g2 raider and pres, which have awesome burst, but it is very hard to land

[Onstrava]

I'm quite surprised nobody said us SS users are OP, you hear quite alot of qq from time to time in matches about the SS. Rejoice snipers, we'll never see a nerf!!!!!....

Edited by Onstrava, 05 April 2015 - 07:34 PM.

[bacon_avenger]

I'm quite surprised nobody said us SS users are OP, you hear quite alot of qq from time to time in matches about the SS. Rejoice snipers, we'll never see a nerf!!!!!....

Mainly because it's already been nerfed several times already in the past... 

[Onstrava]

Mainly because it's already been nerfed several times already in the past... 

Well the best part is...........wait for it.....wait for it..we'll only get buffs now.