153 replies to this topic

[HugeGuts]

Here's a rework that will address the problems people have with the Incinerator - those being too powerful heat absorption, too powerful heat dump, and superior area denial that makes the Grenadier redundant - while still maintaining the Incinerator's heat based powers.

o Passive AoE heat absorption - Removed.

o SAARE primary mode - Now fires and temporarily attaches a heat transfer device to friendly mechs. The device works similar to the Incinerator's current heat absorption, but only one friendly mech can have the buff at a time, and the buff is temporary.

o SAARE secondary mode - Now generates heat and has a standard secondary cool down. The projectile does more damage and applies a temporary debuff that increases heat generated from firing weapons.

o Heat Dispersion - Now the only way for the Incinerator to dump heat.

o Primary weapons - Heat generation adjustments.

[Grollourdo]

Are these updates or suggestions?

Well if these are suggestions then I'm not really for them.

Crippling the incin won't really solve the problem without changing its gameplay and fun of hawken to me.

Ima post my opinions later XD cuz my phone is going to run out of battery XD

[reznog]

I personally haven't played Incin that much but from what i've seen the Incinerators effective damage output with B3-AR:BBY / B3-AR:M4MA is actually below average - working as intended, considering the Incins supposed support role.

 

B3-AR:PPA is where the things get crazy.

 

Take a look at those stats

 

PPA + SAARE = 210 damage per second

Thats the highest possible dps in the game. The second place, at 203 dps, goes to Vulcan + TOW... With the Berserkers ability activated.

Thanks to the nature of the Incins weapons (hitscan + huge AoE) most of the damage is going to find its target. And all the Incins passive buffs are still active on top of that.

 

So yeah, the mech itself is fine, fix the PPA!

Edited by reznog, 31 March 2015 - 02:39 AM.

[BIsmuthZornisse]

i'm reasonably certain that the heat absorption itself isn't really a problem at all (except with the technician, but that's more of an issue with the tech's yellow beam than anything else.)

 

As reznog said, the damage output of papabear plus the SAARE (what's that supposed to mean, anyway?) is ridiculous, especially for a SUPPORT-type mech.

My suggestion to fixing it (and emphasize its support role) is to greatly reduce the damage of the SAARE, maybe even dealing a single digit in default mode, but increasing the amount of heat it inflicts on the enemy, thereby inhibiting the enemy's ability to deal damage.

The left-handed weapons probably might need damage adjustment since this reworked SAARE would deal very little (direct) damage.

[LaurenEmily]

At the risk of getting a lot of hate from the people more experienced than i, in my opinion the incinerator papa gun has enough drawbacks to make it balanced, now i've only played it a tiny bit and of course i sucked with it, it seems to require extremely high maintenance to stay effective, and no other weapon in the game is like that. I mean, one tiny mistake and you're out for what seems like a forever in hawken time. and it's so easy to get messed up on your heat management when there's a ton of people giving you extra heat on top of everything else.

Tl;dr: a gun so hard to manage should have a high risk/high reward relationship with the player imo, like it has now.

[Aregon]

At the risk of getting a lot of hate from the people more experienced than i, in my opinion the incinerator papa gun has enough drawbacks to make it balanced, now i've only played it a tiny bit and of course i sucked with it, it seems to require extremely high maintenance to stay effective, and no other weapon in the game is like that. I mean, one tiny mistake and you're out for what seems like a forever in hawken time. and it's so easy to get messed up on your heat management when there's a ton of people giving you extra heat on top of everything else.

Tl;dr: a gun so hard to manage should have a high risk/high reward relationship with the player imo, like it has now.

I am by no chance a master of the game, but I have played enough to know the Incinerator is too good at what it does. It also messes with one of the most important parts of the meta, and got the secondary with the highest DPS per second (if I remember correctly). Now add the Papa and a pilot knowing what to do, you got a pub stomping mech that wrecks as much as the Ghost Division`s invasion of Poland.

[LarryLaffer]

B3-AR:BBY has too much damage falloff IMO. It is ok to use in CQB, but after 180m it deals only 10 DPS. That's the lowest amount of DPS in game. For example, SMC deals 26DPS after 160m and Assault Rifle deals ~16DPS after 200m. On other hand B3-AR:PPA deals 78DPS after 200m. Pretty impressive, isn't it? There is also spread in this game which lowers amount of dps dealt at range. So personally I don't see any reasons to equip B3-AR:BBY.

 

PPA+Alt SAARE is really terrific combination. You can deal ridiculous amount of damage at quite decent range. Alt Saare fireballs have a large splash radius. It's same as Corsair-KLA missile radius. And you can spam these fireballs infinitely (this is actually one of design problems of Incinerator). Moreover, alt Saare fireballs fly quite fast and their trajectory is relatively flat, so you can hit flying targets relatively easy AND you actually can shoot these great balls of fire at siege ship making a lot of DPS. Thus Incinerator with PPA + SAARE can be used as a mobile AA.

 

One of possible fixes for alt SAARE would be making it purely CQB weapon, i.e. flamethrower. But this thought came to me spontaneously, so it can't be used without making the whole picture clear.

Edited by LarryLaffer, 31 March 2015 - 04:16 AM.

[Merl61]

THIS IS TERRIBLE. Stop suggesting things if you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Anichkov3]

In my incinerator fairly balanced, you only need to remove the "collecting heat" with a Technician...

[X1Alpha2000]

No. Don't do this to my Incinerator, I love the Incinerator the way it is.

[nepacaka]

like topic starter say, SAARE should only generate heat, and Inci should use ability (like other mechs) to transfer his heat to enemies with 30-40 sec c/d.

And gain heat management like other mech. not like "stupid pew-pew machine".

+1

 

In my opinion incinerator fairly balanced

 

in which place?

 

you only need to remove the "collecting heat" with a Technician...

 

that's not solve the problem with his "infinity shooting" manner.

it is still worse designed mech in game. Inci in current state only added a more problems to game balance in future.

remember this... it happens.

Inci in current state never been balanced, and you've been see new topics about Inci every f-cking day on forum. because Inci is broken. it should not contradict the basic principles of mech designing in Hawken.

Edited by nepacaka, 31 March 2015 - 07:39 AM.

[Brawler_Yukon]

I mean, one tiny mistake and you're out for what seems like a forever in hawken time. 

7 whole seconds, 3.75 for overheat, plus 3 for having to spin up the PPA AGAIN.

 

B3-AR:BBY has too much damage falloff IMO. It is ok to use in CQB, but after 180m it deals only 10 DPS. That's the lowest amount of DPS in game. For example, SMC deals 26DPS after 160m and Assault Rifle deals ~16DPS after 200m. On other hand B3-AR:PPA deals 78DPS after 200m. Pretty impressive, isn't it? There is also spread in this game which lowers amount of dps dealt at range. So personally I don't see any reasons to equip B3-AR:BBY.

 

PPA+Alt SAARE is really terrific combination. You can deal ridiculous amount of damage at quite decent range. Alt Saare fireballs have a large splash radius. It's same as Corsair-KLA missile radius. And you can spam these fireballs infinitely (this is actually one of design problems of Incinerator). Moreover, alt Saare fireballs fly quite fast and their trajectory is relatively flat, so you can hit flying targets relatively easy AND you actually can shoot these great balls of fire at siege ship making a lot of DPS. Thus Incinerator with PPA + SAARE can be used as a mobile AA.

 

One of possible fixes for alt SAARE would be making it purely CQB weapon, i.e. flamethrower. But this thought came to me spontaneously, so it can't be used without making the whole picture clear.

You make it CQC and it will go down the shitter faster than you can say "Nerf the Tech" Inc is designed for midium range with the PPA, and making the secondary a flamethrower would completely fuzzy bunny over all the other weapons it has so this is a terrible idea.

 

THIS IS TERRIBLE. Stop suggesting things if you have no idea what you're talking about.

PLEASE.

 

In my incinerator fairly balanced, you only need to remove the "collecting heat" with a Technician...

And even then all you have to do is reduce it to only take 25% so that neither the tech nor Inc is completey butt fuzzy bunnyed when it comes to overheating

 

like topic starter say, SAARE should only generate heat, and Inci should use ability (like other mechs) to transfer his heat to enemies with 30-40 sec c/d.

And gain heat management like other mech. not like "stupid pew-pew machine".

+1

 

in which place?

 

that's not solve the problem with his "infinity shooting" manner.

it is still worse designed mech in game. Inci in current state only added a more problems to game balance in future.

remember this... it happens.

Inci in current state never been balanced, and you've been see new topics about Inci every f-cking day on forum. because Inci is broken. it should not contradict the basic principles of mech designing in Hawken.

Except it's not broken which you would know if you played as one, and secondly the infinity shooter is exactly what it's supposed to do, it's area denial not 1v1, the PPA helps with 1v6 but you're still at a massive disadvantage, but if it has to lose some DPS that's fine since it is undoubtedly the most risk reward for the Inc, but if it does it needs to lose a little bit of heat gen, down to 90.

 

But let me ask one very important question in this thread how many of you people ACTUALLY MAIN INC? Or at least have more than 6 hours playing as it?

[BIsmuthZornisse]

I played Incinerator for 28 hours, i can tell you that the papabear+SAARE combo does ridiculous damage, especially for an alleged SUPPORT mech (imagine if the Technician could deal damage like this), and there isnt much risk to it either:

Step 1: Use Papabear until you have enough heat to fire SAARE-Launcher's large projectiles.

Step 2: Use Papabear and SAARE-Launcher until you get an "overheat" warning.

Step 3: Stop firing the Papabear, keep firing SAARE until you are out of heat.

Step 4: Go back to Step 1.

 

As a supporter, the incinerator should focus on manipulating heat rather than direct damage, in my opinion.

[RespawningJesus]

Honestly, the only problems with the Incin is the passive, and the insane DPS it has with Papa.

Again, I will say to fix the passive, only drain heat from people who have not been firing for a set period of time.

For Papa SAARE wombo combo, just fix the SAARR. Lower the rate of fire on the SAARE, or lower the damage on it. At least the secondary mode to it. I do not see much issues with the primary SAARE mode.

Edited by RespawningJesus, 31 March 2015 - 08:21 AM.

[Brawler_Yukon]

I played Incinerator for 28 hours, i can tell you that the papabear+SAARE combo does ridiculous damage, especially for an alleged SUPPORT mech (imagine if the Technician could deal damage like this), and there isnt much risk to it either:

Step 1: Use Papabear until you have enough heat to fire SAARE-Launcher's large projectiles.

Step 2: Use Papabear and SAARE-Launcher until you get an "overheat" warning.

Step 3: Stop firing the Papabear, keep firing SAARE until you are out of heat.

Step 4: Go back to Step 1.

 

As a supporter, the incinerator should focus on manipulating heat rather than direct damage, in my opinion.

Well that's a nice idea but under that banner the Tech should have no Offensive weapons and the Inc should just be a walking heat siphon for the team. I understand wanting it to be more support than assault, but the PPA lets people who aren't team players still help their team by fighting the enemy. I understand what you want but it would be hard to fix the PPA without making it an undesirable weapon.

 

 

Again, I will say to fix the passive, only drain heat from people who have not been firing for a set period of time.

But that completely defeats the purpose of the heat siphoning, if you have to be out of combat for X seconds then you're going to lose your heat ANYWAYS, making it the most redundant power in game to date.

 

 

For Papa SAARE wombo combo, just fix the SAARR. Lower the rate of fire on the SAARE, or lower the damage on it.

You lower than and you're not hurting PPA, you're hurting ALL the weapons it has since they all rely on the SAARE for the actual damage he does, nobody actually uses the BBY for DPS, you use it so you can get your SAARE launcher available to use.

 

(Note: M4MA is balanced which is hilarious, and thus needs not be talked about)

Edited by Brawler_Yukon, 31 March 2015 - 08:24 AM.

[LaurenEmily]

What is the common opinion about the mama bear, is that op ?

it seems to be just another endless fireball spam so isn't it pretty much the same deal with those guns except slightly easier to heat manage ?

[Brawler_Yukon]

What is the common opinion about the mama bear, is that op ?

it seems to be just another endless fireball spam so isn't it pretty much the same deal with those guns except slightly easier to heat manage ?

The M4MA does like no damage, it has arcing projectiles so you have to aim AROUND your target, you can't fight people in the air easily, and it over heats like a sonofabitch. It's balanced and is the go to weapon for actively supporting your teammates, but whatever it'll be called OP because everything is OP now.

[BIsmuthZornisse]

I only want a damage nerf for the SAARE-Launcher, maybe even an increase in heat dealt to the enemy. The bear-cannons might even need an increased damage output after my proposed change, especially the Babybear, which should probably even have increased heat generation to allow continuous firing of the SAARE's default projectile. Overall, i want the damage output to be comparable to the tech's.

 

As for the papabear allowing non teamplayers to help their team, Hawken is primarily a TEAM-based game, so players need to learn how to work with their team, not be given an over powered combination of weapons.

[Brawler_Yukon]

What I want is a faster spin up model and noise, they're miniguns for fuzzy bunnys sake, they should sound and feel as such. (Not saying they should fire faster or anything, just feel like it)

 

 

Hawken is primarily a TEAM-based game, so players need to learn how to work with their team, not be given an over powered combination of weapons.

Yeah, but you know that's not how it works, and you also know there are tons of matches where everybody is a lone wolf and things work fine. You can repeat the dictionary definition, but reality will have to come in at some time. Also it's not OP, if it were Inc would never die and I've seen more than my fair share of stupid Inc's with PPA dying more than killing. But this all comes down to Skill VS Equipment, where any good player can rofl stomp as Tech if they wanted to. Damn. Now I want to see a match where Dave only plays Tech.

Edited by Brawler_Yukon, 31 March 2015 - 08:44 AM.

[LaurenEmily]

Changing the gun's distinctive sound would be step 1, because it annoys the hell out of everyone, right everyone ?

 

It just does not sound like a giant spinning gun of death like it should.

Change it to something like this and we'll talk.

 

[Hyginos]

Changing the gun's distinctive sound would be step 1, because it annoys the hell out of everyone, right everyone ?

 

It just does not sound like a giant spinning gun of death like it should.

Change it to something like this and we'll talk.

*video*

 

I think it should get nerfed before it gets an audio change, lest I be tempted to play it again.

 

Right now it gives me a headache. Spent way to much time in one in TPG S1 and I can't stand the cacophony anymore.

[Brawler_Yukon]

Changing the gun's distinctive sound would be step 1, because it annoys the hell out of everyone, right everyone ?

 

It just does not sound like a giant spinning gun of death like it should.

Change it to something like this and we'll talk.

*Vid*

Actually that sound would only work on BBY, and the PPA might make use of it, but then it'd sound really wierd since the PPA is twice the size of the BBY. M4MA has the right sound, it just needs a faster spinning animation.

Edited by Brawler_Yukon, 31 March 2015 - 08:52 AM.

[L_evis]

Every day people cry about incinerators, because they died from it few times and saw that incinerator was on the first place on results table, but the main problem is that they dont have incinerator in their garage and they don't know how really hard to play on incinerator, ESPECIALLY WITH PPA coz u only deal 5 shots and u overheated, then PPA is rotating again before begin to shoot AND........ u see running berserker or scout in front of u and just die, coz PPA need few seconds to start fire, and than match ends. Yes they all now can say that i need to shoot from 2ND SARE mode,  BUT ITS REALLY HARD 2 MANAGE!!!!! Incin is a C class and ITS VERY LARGE so all players (EVEN BLIND) can hit him easilly! AND THEY DO THIS! Even when they are dying and on very low hp they just can fire to random side and hit me when im on incin due 2 my size. And most of all i love when people cry about incin and tech, this is the "best-of-tears" coz they shoot incinerator while he on repair light, hmmmmmmmm........... ARE U SERIOUS?! SHOOT TECHNICIAN!!!!!! He died very fast, and incin goes into garage after it in a few seconds THATS ALL! STOP CRYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LaurenEmily]

Every day people cry about incinerators, because they died from it few times and saw that incinerator was on the first place on results table, but the main problem is that they dont have incinerator in their garage and they don't know how really hard to play on incinerator, ESPECIALLY WITH PPA coz u only deal 5 shots and u overheated, then PPA is rotating again before begin to shoot AND........ u see running berserker or scout in front of u and just die, coz PPA need few seconds to start fire, and than match ends. Yes they all now can say that i need to shoot from 2ND SARE mode,  BUT ITS REALLY HARD 2 MANAGE!!!!! Incin is a C class and ITS VERY LARGE so all players (EVEN BLIND) can hit him easilly! AND THEY DO THIS! Even when they are dying and on very low hp they just can fire to random side and hit me when im on incin due 2 my size. And most of all i love when people cry about incin and tech, this is the "best-of-tears" coz they shoot incinerator while he on repair light, hmmmmmmmm........... ARE U SERIOUS?! SHOOT TECHNICIAN!!!!!! He died very fast, and incin goes into garage after it in a few seconds THATS ALL! STOP CRYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Incinerator on first place ?

pics or didn't happen.

 

Actually that sound would only work on BBY, and the PPA might make use of it, but then it'd sound really wierd since the PPA is twice the size of the BBY. M4MA has the right sound, it just needs a faster spinning animation.

Oh i never noticed they were any different in size. Only colors..

Edited by LaurenEmily, 31 March 2015 - 09:09 AM.

[Panzermanathod]

Hello. I main the Incinerator. I think it's fine as is.

 

Problems with the Papa? I'm still trying to get used to that weapon and I've overheated with that thing so many times it's not funny. Yes, under optimal conditions it can pump out lots of DPS. If you can't use the weapon that's not going to help you. It's also not good at quickfiring due to it's startup, and due to it I have to minimize dashing just to keep the spin up sometimes.

 

High risk, high reward. Oh I've done heavy damage to enemies with ol' Papa and taken them out, but the Papa has caused me deaths as well. If you're gonna nerf the gun for its power you should nerf Sniper Rifles because of their range. Keep in mind that Incinerator has no turret mode so even with a group an Incinerator spearheading into battle will go out faster than ones with a turret mode. And, hey, I kinda wish the Papa had faster start up but even I know that would actually make the weapon OP.

 

I'm fine with the gun sounds, by the way.

 

If I were to make any changes, it's to buff the spin speed of the mama. It stops spinning faster than Papa and it's rate of fire starting up is terrible. It can keep its base stats, I just wish it shot faster.

 

 

 

And yes I've MVPed with Incinerator several times.

Edited by Panzermanathod, 31 March 2015 - 09:18 AM.

[Brawler_Yukon]

Oh i never noticed they were any different in size. Only colors..

No yeah

The BBY is half(Or less) the size of the PPA, and the M4MA is 3/4th the size of the PPA. From smallest to biggest is BBY, M4MA,PPA.

Edited by Brawler_Yukon, 31 March 2015 - 09:25 AM.

[LarryLaffer]

You make it CQC and it will go down the shitter faster than you can say "Nerf the Tech" Inc is designed for midium range with the PPA, and making the secondary a flamethrower would completely fuzzy bunny over all the other weapons it has so this is a terrible idea.

Like I said it was a spontaneous idea, so don't take it into consideration. But the problems I described are real.
 

Except it's not broken which you would know if you played as one, and secondly the infinity shooter is exactly what it's supposed to do, it's area denial not 1v1, the PPA helps with 1v6 but you're still at a massive disadvantage, but if it has to lose some DPS that's fine since it is undoubtedly the most risk reward for the Inc, but if it does it needs to lose a little bit of heat gen, down to 90.

You know, there are at least 2 good area denial mechs in Hawken already, that's Grenadier and Rocketeer. And, surprise, they don't have ability of infinite spam. How do you think why?.. Because of heat management ofc. The heat management is one of the pillars of balance in Hawken. It's the thing that was made to prevent mindless spamming and to make equal opportunities for both teams on battlefield. And we are not talking about 1vs6 here or whatever, we are talking about balanced games. And now there is a mech that says "Hey, screw this heat management, let's burn them, baby!" This idea seemed to be good at first glance, but after hours of actual ingame tests showed that this kind of mechanic with such stats of weapons doesn't suit for Hawken.

 

 

But let me ask one very important question in this thread how many of you people ACTUALLY MAIN INC? Or at least have more than 6 hours playing as it?

Inci is maxed out, 14 hours played. Made a lot of comebacks with it with siege games. And PPA Inci is OP as hell. I felt that instantly when I destroyed my first rocketeer with PPA+Saare in 2.5-3 secs.

 

 

I played Incinerator for 28 hours, i can tell you that the papabear+SAARE combo does ridiculous damage, especially for an alleged SUPPORT mech (imagine if the Technician could deal damage like this), and there isnt much risk to it either:

Step 1: Use Papabear until you have enough heat to fire SAARE-Launcher's large projectiles.

Step 2: Use Papabear and SAARE-Launcher until you get an "overheat" warning.

Step 3: Stop firing the Papabear, keep firing SAARE until you are out of heat.

Step 4: Go back to Step 1.

 

As a supporter, the incinerator should focus on manipulating heat rather than direct damage, in my opinion.

^THIS! Thanks God that somebody finally said it! Using B3-AR: PPA is not so hard if you have a little bit sense of rhythm.

[Panzermanathod]

One must also keep in mind any potential heat absorption as well. My "rythym" has been ruined by absorbing heat a number of times in the past.

[LaurenEmily]

Using B3-AR: PPA is not so hard if you have a little bit sense of rhythm.

This works well when you are alone, but what about when you are surrounded by enemies/teammates who all give you so much extra heat to deal with ? Seems to me that you can hardly get the gun going before it's overheated and the fireballs are hard to land on flying enemies so you only have one weapon which is gimped if the enemy decides to go airborne. 

Of course the heat stealing is pretty random so it's hard to take that in your rhythm calculations and it really messes you up.

I'm not denying anything here, i just simply fail to see how that thing is overpowered.

[Brawler_Yukon]

 

You know, there are at least 2 good area denial mechs in Hawken already, that's Grenadier and Rocketeer. 

Are- Are you for serious right now? Are you really saying this? Rocketeer is as area denial as my left ass cheek. Okay for the sake of argument lets say that you're fighting a rocketeer. No tech. Nobody else. you've found them cornered. Rocketeer is going to die because the Inc is a B-class that's put on too much weight, like the G2R is an A class with glandular problem. The biggest problem here is you erroneously think that just because it can use heat as ammo means it doesn't have heat management, which is bollocks. The PPA is good only with good players, it accentuates good play style, you're basically complaining that YOU'RE too good.

[RespawningJesus]

 

But that completely defeats the purpose of the heat siphoning, if you have to be out of combat for X seconds then you're going to lose your heat ANYWAYS, making it the most redundant power in game to date.

 

 

You lower than and you're not hurting PPA, you're hurting ALL the weapons it has since they all rely on the SAARE for the actual damage he does, nobody actually uses the BBY for DPS, you use it so you can get your SAARE launcher available to use.

 

(Note: M4MA is balanced which is hilarious, and thus needs not be talked about)

 

 

I think you should re-read my post for your second point, since I edited it minutes before you quoted my post.  

 

Anyways, the biggest problem with the Incin is the Incin-Tech synergy.  It is just too good.  The reason why it is too good is because it drains heat during combat, effectively giving the Tech crazy sustain to the Incin.  Yeah, you are going to lose heat out of combat anyways, but you could always just buff the amount of heat it absorbs to get people back into the fight much quicker.  Either that, or you could make it so that the Incin itself needs to stop attacking to siphon heat from it's allies.  Again, you could buff the amount of heat it absorbs to compensate this change. 

 

Currently, the Incin-Tech synergy is the biggest problem with the Incin right now.  And the cause of the problem is the Incin's passive.  Instead of getting rid of it, you can tweak it.

 

 

 

Are- Are you for serious right now? Are you really saying this? Rocketeer is as area denial as my left ass cheek. Okay for the sake of argument lets say that you're fighting a rocketeer. No tech. Nobody else. you've found them cornered. Rocketeer is going to die because the Inc is a B-class that's put on too much weight, like the G2R is an A class with glandular problem. The biggest problem here is you erroneously think that just because it can use heat as ammo means it doesn't have heat management, which is bollocks. The PPA is good only with good players, it accentuates good play style, you're basically complaining that YOU'RE too good.

 

 

Rocketeer is an AoD mech, however, it is not a very good one.  Rocketeer is just not a good mech in general.

Edited by RespawningJesus, 31 March 2015 - 09:54 AM.

[Brawler_Yukon]

I think you should re-read my post for your second point, since I edited it minutes before you quoted my post.  

Alright, I re-read it, and you'd still be ruining M4MA along side PPA, because the Secondary all we can use, and the secondary does the exact same damage as the small projectile, it just has a bigger splash radius.

 

 

Currently, the Incin-Tech synergy is the biggest problem with the Incin right now.  And the cause of the problem is the Incin's passive.  Instead of getting rid of it, you can tweak it.

Y'know it's really funny how even Tech players agree with this, not saying I don't. I agree completely.

 

 

Rocketeer is an AoD mech, however, it is not a very good one.  Rocketeer is just not a good mech in general.

Well yeah, that's why I say it's as AoD as a fart in the wind, it's not AoD in its current state, saying it is, is just blatantly false.

Edited by Brawler_Yukon, 31 March 2015 - 09:57 AM.

[Panzermanathod]

I don't think giving the Incinerator the ability to absorb heat while not attacking will help it any. It *has* to attack to dissapate heat. At best you have an Incinerator that only really uses its secondary.

[Aregon]

Every day people cry about incinerators, because they died from it few times and saw that incinerator was on the first place on results table, but the main problem is that they dont have incinerator in their garage and they don't know how really hard to play on incinerator, ESPECIALLY WITH PPA coz u only deal 5 shots and u overheated, then PPA is rotating again before begin to shoot AND........ u see running berserker or scout in front of u and just die, coz PPA need few seconds to start fire, and than match ends. Yes they all now can say that i need to shoot from 2ND SARE mode,  BUT ITS REALLY HARD 2 MANAGE!!!!! Incin is a C class and ITS VERY LARGE so all players (EVEN BLIND) can hit him easilly! AND THEY DO THIS! Even when they are dying and on very low hp they just can fire to random side and hit me when im on incin due 2 my size. And most of all i love when people cry about incin and tech, this is the "best-of-tears" coz they shoot incinerator while he on repair light, hmmmmmmmm........... ARE U SERIOUS?! SHOOT TECHNICIAN!!!!!! He died very fast, and incin goes into garage after it in a few seconds THATS ALL! STOP CRYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HWK Vanashikaku, the creator of the Incinerator has admitted it is OP if I remember correctly. Xacius, highest ranking player IN THE GAME has called it OP. It has never been discussed if it is OP or not, just how OP it is. 

[L_evis]

HWK Vanashikaku, the creator of the Incinerator has admitted it is OP if I remember correctly. Xacius, highest ranking player IN THE GAME has called it OP. It has never been discussed if it is OP or not, just how OP it is. 

Everybody can kill incinerator with ease. Now i say INCINERATOR IS NOT OP.

[reznog]

Guys, new idea!

Saare puts out some serious damage, but is balanced by difficult to use primary weapons.

Only problem being, as has been said, figuring out the right rhythm to not to overheat with the PPA isn't that difficult.

So, hows this: Change the Incins passive into a fuel converter for heat.

Getting shot at - more heat - more fireballs to retaliate, should make a interesting game mechanic. Fixes the synergy with the Tech everyone likes to hate.

And PPA Incins are suddenly taking huge pressure under enemy fire, making it only viable if other mechs are tanking, just like a support mech should be working out.

[MomOw]

I like the uniqueness of the heat management of the incinerator, I don't like its too high DPS and its combo with the techie.

 

I don't like having the same weapon design with different name/behavior on the same Mech. I understand it for different Mechs to balance, but here it was just laziness.

 

About game balance, the incin' is not a support mech, let's change its description to a suppressive fire Mech.

- remove the heat absorption

- let it only have PAPA as primary weapon, reduce the heat per second and (slightly) increase the DPS buy increasing it's ROF (target  ~108 DPS, 22 heat per second)

- leave the uncharged SAARE as it is, reduce the ROF of the charged SAARE but increase its radius and make them greatly increase the heat of ennemy Mech heat.

 

Basically make it less killy and more heaty

[nepacaka]

Every day people cry about incinerators, because they died from it few times and saw that incinerator was on the first place on results table, but the main problem is that they dont have incinerator in their garage and they don't know how really hard to play on incinerator, ESPECIALLY WITH PPA coz u only deal 5 shots and u overheated

 

what the f-cking thing u talking about !?

 

should i make a video in which i demonstrate to you how use "infinity mode" with papa+saare combo? i can shoot 5 minutes in a row without overheating, NOTHING HARD IN THIS!

 

actually, man with nickname BismutZornisse already writing a manual "How to do it" a several posts above.

 

sometimes i just don't understand why people who never play on inci say "it is not OP", if people who have this mech tell you that: "Inci is Broken!"

damn, I even have a two different Incinirators in my hangar with PPA and with MMA :?

lol

 

Incinerator IS NOT OP!

Incinerator IS BROKEN!!!

it should not differ from other mechs. it's should have a "normal" overheat system, and "normal" ability, like other mech. then they was a playable. i still don't understand why people can't understand this simple fact.

 

Just realise a one simply example. You play in World of Tanks (for example) and all tanks in game drive on the ground and have a +/- 10 sec c/d. Now imagine a one different tank, which can flying in sky and shooting every second like a "machinegun" with infinity ammo. This tank called - Incinerator...

now answer me, do you like this tank?

Edited by nepacaka, 31 March 2015 - 11:41 AM.

[Panzermanathod]

Again, finding the right rythym is not always feasible if you are firing around teammates. I mean, Ideaily you can kill an Incinerator with a Reaper before it gets too close. Doesn't mean that's always the case and therefore is no reason to nerf the Reaper for its range.

 

And what do you mean exactly by fuel converter for heat?

 

Also getting shot at should not be a means of getting heat. You already have several other mechs that can potentially take more punishment. If there was some alternate Incinerator with turret mode it could probably work. Without it it's not going to change much for the better. Unless you want people to go "Man, I need people shooting at me so I can shoot more fireballs".

 

Seriously if you guys want the Incinerator nerfed so much it might as well be removed or simply have a very different load out.

Edited by Panzermanathod, 31 March 2015 - 11:53 AM.

[Aregon]

Everybody can kill incinerator with ease. Now i say INCINERATOR IS NOT OP.