153 replies to this topic

[SparkyJJC]

Everybody can kill incinerator with ease. Now i say INCINERATOR IS NOT OP.

 

"Rock is OP. Paper is fine" -Scissors

[Brawler_Yukon]

I like the uniqueness of the heat management of the incinerator, I don't like its too high DPS and its combo with the techie.

 

I don't like having the same weapon design with different name/behavior on the same Mech. I understand it for different Mechs to balance, but here it was just laziness.

 

About game balance, the incin' is not a support mech, let's change its description to a suppressive fire Mech.

- remove the heat absorption

- let it only have PAPA as primary weapon, reduce the heat per second and (slightly) increase the DPS buy increasing it's ROF (target  ~108 DPS, 22 heat per second)

- leave the uncharged SAARE as it is, reduce the ROF of the charged SAARE but increase its radius and make them greatly increase the heat of ennemy Mech heat.

 

Basically make it less killy and more heaty

Thanks for ruining people who don't use PPA and making them be forced to use it, thanks. Also removing the heat absorbtion basically makes it a G2 Assault but with a grenade launcher, great job completely missing the point of the mech.

[nepacaka]

Doesn't mean that's always the case and therefore is no reason to NERF the Reaper for its range.

 

you, people, don't understand one simple thing.

 

we not talking about NERF, we talking about REWORK.

Edited by nepacaka, 31 March 2015 - 12:04 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

"Just realise a one simply example. You play in World of Tanks (for example) and all tanks in game drive on the ground and have a +/- 10 sec c/d. Now imagine a one different tank, which can flying in sky and shooting every second like a "machinegun" with infinity ammo. This tank called - Incinerator...

now answer me, do you like this tank?"

 

A flying tank with infinite shots in a tank simulator is not the Incinerator. That assumes that the Incinerator had improved mobility to evade the maximum aiming angle of a normal tank.

 

[Brawler_Yukon]

 

"Just realise a one simply example. You play in World of Tanks (for example) and all tanks in game drive on the ground and have a +/- 10 sec c/d. Now imagine a one different tank, which can flying in sky and shooting every second like a "machinegun" with infinity ammo. This tank called - Incinerator...

now answer me, do you like this tank?"

 

A flying tank with infinite shots in a tank simulator is not the Incinerator. That assumes that the Incinerator had improved mobility to evade the maximum aiming angle of a normal tank.

Would I like it? Yes, yes I would. It would present a challenge to kill and would make me have to get better as opposed to me bitching on the forums about how it's le op plez nerf devz.

Edited by Brawler_Yukon, 31 March 2015 - 12:00 PM.

[nepacaka]

A flying tank with infinite shots in a tank simulator is not the Incinerator. That assumes that the Incinerator had improved mobility to evade the maximum aiming angle of a normal tank.

 

ok, i see u don't understand my joke. maybe it is my fault because i'm russian and my english is bad.

 

so, i use more simple example

 

all mechs in game have the same heat management.

this is one of core gameplay.

incinerator don't have this system. it don't have a overheat at all, and can shooting infinitely.

it ruined core gameplay.

this is why inci is Broken. it is not OP. it is Broken.

this is why since inci was implemented people every day create new topic on forum about inci.

any questions?

Edited by nepacaka, 31 March 2015 - 12:12 PM.

[reznog]

Sorry Panzer, but the overwhelming majority of players agree on PPA Incin being op. I know people are offended by being told theyr wrong, bet lets try anyways: Watch this.

 

 

And what do you mean exactly by fuel converter for heat?

 

Take damage, heat level increases by x percent of that damage.

Sounds counterproductive, but heat is ammo for you secondary and hey, the whole mech concept is wonky, so screw logic.

 

- remove the heat absorption

- let it only have PAPA as primary weapon, reduce the heat per second and (slightly) increase the DPS buy increasing it's ROF (target  ~108 DPS, 22 heat per second)

 

Only one primary = turn it into an G2?

Too big of an change i belive the devs would risk.

 

 

- leave the uncharged SAARE as it is, reduce the ROF of the charged SAARE but increase its radius and make them greatly increase the heat of ennemy Mech heat.

 

Basically make it less killy and more heaty

 

This sounds like a really great idea, primary fire for dps, secondary fire for support.
 

 

 

it don't have a overheat at all, and can shooting infinitely.

it ruined core gameplay.

 

But thats the whole point of the Incin. I don't see how the mech could still fulfill its role without infinite suppresive firepower.

If it wasn't for the PPA i don't think it'd be considered op. I've played BBY Incin and i got stomped. Alot. Unlocked PPA, suddenly topped scoreboards. Mech is fine, its just the PPA that pushes it to far.

Edited by reznog, 31 March 2015 - 12:22 PM.

[nepacaka]

Only one primary = turn it into an G2?

 

it doesn't help. because actually, on current moment inci already has ONLY ONE weapon. PPA. I don't know people who use mma or bby in right mind. just because it only weaker than ppa.

 

for example,

1) Brawler with Flak or Minigun - cqc damager,  Brawler with Hawkins - mid-long range support. it is an Alternative.

2) Inci with PPA - cqc damager with powerful SAARE shots,  Inci with baby...useles sh!t without damage? no?

alternative inci weapon don't give him none alternative.

 

even if you turned Inci into G2 - it doesn't help. This mech will never working correct until Devs don't change his overheat system into normal. the same with all other mechs.

Edited by nepacaka, 31 March 2015 - 12:29 PM.

[MomOw]

Only one primary = turn it into an G2?

Too big of an change i belive the devs would risk.

 

 

I'm okay with the incin' being a G2, I wonder why they didn't loaded the incin with a Vulcan or a Miniflak that have the highest heat per second.

THe only reason is the too high DPS that would come with these weapons, but a low DPS unique secondary could have made it.

[nepacaka]

THe only reason is the too high DPS that would come with these weapons, but a low DPS unique secondary could have made it.

 

and after this changes nobody want play this, because "too weak!". lol xD

 

is not the solution. This only compounds the problem and adds more problems in the future development. This is the reason why did not need to break the core gameplay.

 

On the example of Incin Devs must understand that mechs like Incin should not be created. Sometimes, ordinary things work much better.

 

This is the simplest solution, to get rid of all the problems with Incin at once. And even a team with 6 incin never be a problem if you give him normal overheat. even in any game scenario...

 

Edited by nepacaka, 31 March 2015 - 12:40 PM.

[L_evis]

 

what the f-cking thing u talking about !?

 

should i make a video in which i demonstrate to you how use "infinity mode" with papa+saare combo? i can shoot 5 minutes in a row without overheating, NOTHING HARD IN THIS!

 

actually, man with nickname BismutZornisse already writing a manual "How to do it" a several posts above.

 

sometimes i just don't understand why people who never play on inci say "it is not OP", if people who have this mech tell you that: "Inci is Broken!"

damn, I even have a two different Incinirators in my hangar with PPA and with MMA :?

lol

 

Incinerator IS NOT OP!

Incinerator IS BROKEN!!!

it should not differ from other mechs. it's should have a "normal" overheat system, and "normal" ability, like other mech. then they was a playable. i still don't understand why people can't understand this simple fact.

 

Just realise a one simply example. You play in World of Tanks (for example) and all tanks in game drive on the ground and have a +/- 10 sec c/d. Now imagine a one different tank, which can flying in sky and shooting every second like a "machinegun" with infinity ammo. This tank called - Incinerator...

now answer me, do you like this tank?

 

Omg, how many people like to "Open the america", i play incin as my main and can shoot infinite with any weapon setup. My message is that all mechs are OP, they all almost perfect balanced. I saw awesome vanguard with mini-flak and i thoug "Damn i can f**k people this way too" and i bought it, and know what?! I CANT KILL ANYBODY ON IT! Same sh*t with the Scout. Each mech became "destroyer" in right hands, this is the message!

[reznog]

I wonder why they didn't loaded the incin with a Vulcan or a Miniflak that have the highest heat per second.

 

Not enough heat generation. Yey weapon stats.

 

 

Vulcan: 7,29 hps

BBY: 11 hps

M4MA: 26 hps

PPA: 44 hps (wtf, right?)

Edited by reznog, 31 March 2015 - 12:40 PM.

[Aregon]

Omg, how many people like to "Open the america", i play incin as my main and can shoot infinite with any weapon setup. My message is that all mechs are OP, they all almost perfect balanced. I saw awesome vanguard with mini-flak and i thoug "Damn i can f**k people this way too" and i bought it, and know what?! I CANT KILL ANYBODY ON IT! Same sh*t with the Scout. Each mech became "destroyer" in right hands, this is the message!

Just because you don`t notice the problem, doesn`t mean there isn`t a problem.

[nepacaka]

Omg, how many people like to "Open the america", i play incin as my main and can shoot infinite with any weapon setup. My message is that all mechs are OP, they all almost perfect balanced. I saw awesome vanguard with mini-flak and i thoug "Damn i can f**k people this way too" and i bought it, and know what?! I CANT KILL ANYBODY ON IT! Same sh*t with the Scout. Each mech became "destroyer" in right hands, this is the message!

 

ok, sorry,

maybe i'm incorrect understand your message, comrade :D

but...inci is still broken xD

 

 

i play incin as my main and can shoot infinite with any weapon setup

 

and, do you think it's normal?

:?

Edited by nepacaka, 31 March 2015 - 12:47 PM.

[L_evis]

Just because you don`t notice the problem, doesn`t mean there isn`t a problem.

The problem is tears of loosers that want to nerf incinerator.

Edited by L_evis, 31 March 2015 - 12:45 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

Well, I still call the Papa "High Risk High Reward". I personally switch between Baby and Papa. And as someone who has gained additional kills and losses  due to how the Papa works I've generally been fine with it. If the Papa gets some sort of balance update then fine, it is what it is.

 

There are, as with other weapons, times where one can use the weapon optimally and times where its use is a hinderance. I still use it for its power but you cannot convince me that it doesn't have its own sets of faults. Spin time, heat generation along with heat absorbtion, simply being distracted enough to overlook the heat gauge for a moment, the amount of time one is vulnerable due to overheat, the fact that it is *terrible* against quick ambushes, the fact that you have to dash less to maintain gun spin, and the fact that actually ambushing requires prep time, moreso than other weapons.

 

I keep all this in mind selecting the PPA, so telling me it's OP purely because of DPS and the heat system seems moot given that the Incinerator a C-Class with no defensive options and, well, a C-Class. Again, if it gets a balance change, that's fine with me, but I think it's fine as is.

 

Also, I admit, I got the Incinerator for its heat management, not power (especially for a weapon even I admit I cannot use fully). Having it taken away would basically ruin my ol' pal Inferno'Jizah.

===

"The problem is tears of loosers that want to nerf incinerator."

 

Be civil, man. No need to insult anyone.

Edited by Panzermanathod, 31 March 2015 - 12:49 PM.

[SparkyJJC]

The problem is tears of loosers that want to nerf incinerator.

 

Another problem: The tears of incin-thumpers.

Come to terms with the fact that the heat, damage, and the secondary are pretty powerful, and when paired with a tech, it's a downright game ruiner.

 

I'll be seeing you in game with my perfectly balanced Raider.

[nepacaka]

Well, I still call the Papa "High Risk High Reward"

 

you just don't understand how play with it. it is your personal problem. all other players know how easy u can shoot from ppa.

there is no high risk.

left-right-left-right-left-right-right-right-left...repeat. nothing hard.

 

The problem is tears of loosers that want to nerf incinerator.

 

you probably never understand difference between nerf and rework. and why it is needed.

all problem with incin was demonstrated many time ago. problem not in "lossers"

 

players on this forum have a 2k+ rating and 60-70% winrate percentage. so...we see this problem not because we are "bad with incinerator", or "incinirator always kill us".

No, we see this, because incin ruined core gameplay mechanics.

Edited by nepacaka, 31 March 2015 - 01:03 PM.

[Hyginos]

The problem is tears of loosers that want to nerf incinerator.

 

The thread is called "rework incinerator" not "nerf incinerator". The contention is that it is mechanically antithetical to good game play for Hawken.

[Panzermanathod]

you just don't understand how play with it. it is your personal problem. all other players know how easy u can shoot from ppa.

there is no high risk.

left-right-left-right-left-right-right-right-left...repeat. nothing hard.

 

And I don't think you know what "High risk high reward" means. You also igmored all the stuff I said that was against the PPA, it seems. PPA *is* high risk, even if you think it's OP and "easy to use".

[L_evis]

Another problem: The tears of incin-thumpers.

Come to terms with the fact that the heat, damage, and the secondary are pretty powerful, and when paired with a tech, it's a downright game ruiner.

 

I'll be seeing you in game with my perfectly balanced Raider.

Yes, secondary is strong but it's not easy to hit with it, especially flying targets, and agreed that passive heat absorb with tecth is pretty "ass-burned" for enemies, so maybe passive ability can be reworked/nerfed/removed ...

[nepacaka]

even if you think it's OP and "easy to use".

 

but i don't think it is OP. yes, i say PPA is easy to use, but i don't understand where i mistaken?

 

i'm talking about broken incinirator, not about his wepon (which actually broken too, becase 2 of 3 are useless)

i'm talking about his ability to infinitely shooting. about his overheat system. and about future problems related with this mech. believe me, any balance changes in future, or creating a new mech, one way or another will give us a "effect" which combined with the incinerator will be create a different game-exploits.

Just remember this phrase when devs added something new in game (if they added :D)

Edited by nepacaka, 31 March 2015 - 01:17 PM.

[SparkyJJC]

Yes, secondary is strong but it's not easy to hit with it, especially flying targets, and agreed that passive heat absorb with tecth is pretty "ass-burned" for enemies, so maybe passive ability can be reworked/nerfed/removed ...

 

I play Raider all the time and on numerous occasions I have been hitting enemies with my Corsair KLA. I've gotten multiple kills halfway across the map in spite of the projectile's arc.
If I can hit enemies halfway across the map with my Raider's Corsair, I'm sure as hell going to be a fair shot with the Incin's secondary.
If you practice enough, you can be a good shot with any weapon.

[Anichkov3]

What impassioned debate! Some reproaches and so little of the present proposals - "what to do".

Why not give 10 shots from the SAARE? It is about 13 seconds of continuous shooting, and then shut off the weapon would be about 2...4 seconds as if recharged.

[Panzermanathod]

Nepa I apologize, I've gotten the "arguments" mixed up.

 

My point still stands, though, PPA is still high risk-high reward. Even if you find it easy to use (even though it's not easier to use than a lot of other Alternate weaponry), it is by far one of the easiest weapons to screw up using, and it's potential downtime is more than any other weapon. Ergo, high risk.

 

And I still say if you get rid of its heat abilities you might as well get rid of the Incinerator and replace it with something else. Maybe make it a heavy, pure offense mech. All of the Incinerator's weapons are built around its heat. Getting rid of it dissapating heat by it's special ability/secondary weapon means giving it a normal cooldown. Giving it a normal cooldown will mean that the BBY will have to be reworked as a weapon (since it's main use is suppresing fire), and the Alternate/Prestige weapons are more or less pointless and need to be replaced since they put out far too much heat for sustained fire. Maybe the M4MA can be reworked, but not the PPA. And without the heat ability it needs a completely new ability since you cannot store heat anymore.

 

So, when all is said and done, you cannot really rework the Incinerator to not have it's heat system. It would have to be replaced.

[nepacaka]

ok guys, for all of you, who just don't understand main problems of Incinerator.

 

 

I propose:

 

1) Rework his overheat to the same with all mechs?

 

which sense in this:

- Delete infinity shoots ability. and give incinerator ordinary heat management like others

- Delete problem with "tech-combo" infinity overheat

- Delete Siege problems, when one team have a 3 incinerators and just use spam-shot tactics. they just shoot in your base direction from SAARE big fire-balls with huge splash.

^

This can solve several inci problems. But you told me: "leave it as is. Inci is fine!"

---------------

 

2) Rework the SAARE into ordinary weapon like GL (with two fire modes), because it need to rework, if we change inci overheat system.

 

which sense in this:

- No more players who can shoot from SAARE infinity, and players who always overheat with PPA. because they start working like GL, you shoot 4-5 times and now you overheated. just wait a little like other, and continue fight.

- Delete any problem with balancing / Easy to balance

^

This can solve several inci problems. But you told me: "leave it as is. Inci is fine!"

---------------

 

3) After 1 and 2. A little rebalanced all primary weapons

BABY - less damage, less heat, add a little time to spin (which already exist, but previous Devs delete this feature in next Inci-patch)

PAPA - high damage, high time to spin barrel, high overheat - turn it into correct High risk/High Revard weapon. More like Burst-Minigun with spin-delay.

MAMA - it is normal now.

 

which sense in this:

- Make all three weapon Usable, not only PPA like it working now.

- Make a several different role for Inci. Support with BBY, Damager with PPA, and Support/Overheaty with MMA. This is actually gain an Inci a variability on battlefield.

- Delete any problem with balancing / Easy to balance.

^

This can solve several inci problems. But you told me: "leave it as is. Inci is fine!"

---------------

 

4) Rework incinerator ability into "Transfer Heat"

How it working.

You can transfer some amount of your heat (and nearbly stand teammates), to enemies in some AOE range. Enemies nogain damage, You just increase their overheat level (and maybe little decrease teammates overheat level).

You can use this ability one time in 40-50 second (numbers is approximately)

 

which sense in this:

- No more "stupid damage" ability. imho, no one mech in Hawken should not have ability which just gain a damage. it is a very bad conception.

- You can do it while you move, and ability no more suicidable (actually, after patch inci ability is a piece-of-sh!t, almost no one don't use it correct in fight)

- No more stomp 1/3 HP A-Class "just because"

^

This can solve several inci problems. But you told me: "leave it as is. Inci is fine!"

 

 

All of my suggestion turned Incinerator into a Brawler or Grenadier C-class analog.

With this changes Incin turn into a Main-Tank / Support with ability to management enemies overheat, force the enemies to overheat at inappropriate time for them and then kill while they can't shoot (only if you use ability correct!)

 

All of this make the Inci an interest mech to play, with difference tactics and some gameplay nuances.

 

But you don't want it. You just want play on "Infinity pew-pew tech-lover Mech". Right?

 

Incinerator can be BETTER, but only if they will be REWORKED.

no one "Rebalance" can not help change it into Interest and Playable mech, only Totally Rework can turn Inci into normal state. If you don't want make it better, so...just play on stupid mech with one usable weapons, one pew-pew tactics, and his ugly-animated yoloability.

Edited by nepacaka, 31 March 2015 - 02:37 PM.

[nepacaka]

So, when all is said and done, you cannot really rework the Incinerator to not have it's heat system. It would have to be replaced.

 

I can.

read my message above. i have my own opinion how Incin should be changed. and it is a TOTAL REWORK. change only one element - doesn't work. I propose change ALL.

 

which I trying to tell you - it is not nerf or buff

 

Why not give 10 shots from the SAARE? It is about 13 seconds of continuous shooting, and then shut off the weapon would be about 2...4 seconds as if recharged.

 

and this equal turn off you mech like if it will be overheated. maybe easy to make inci the ordinary overheat system?

 

Why reinvent the wheel?

Edited by nepacaka, 31 March 2015 - 02:29 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

I mentioned before, I use 2 incinerator weapons. The Mama I don't use purely for its startup. But I like the Papa and the Baby. And I see more Incinerators using Baby than Papa.

 

Making the special ability just a heat transfer skill still makes the skill "suicidal". Even moreso since you don't deal any damage. Alternatively you'll have people complaining that Incinerator has an ability that is basically almost an EMP device on command.

 

Also, doing 1/3 health on an A Class mech, given how the special skill works, sounds reasonable to me. A Class mechs have low HP, and are fast enough to potentially avoid it most times.

 

Baby does *not* need spin time. At all. And while Mama, to me, needs a buff, it does not need to be a normal weapon. That's what Baby is for, and Mama shoots too slow and too weak for it to be normal. Sure, you can make it stronger and shoot faster without its special ability, but at that point you might as well have another weapon in its place.

 

Also if you make the secondary essentally a grenade launcher... then why not make it a grenade launcher?

 

Also the Papa would have to be completely redone (and at that point might as well be another weapon) with your suggestions. Papa works as a high heat weapon only because of its secondary. That aside, you'd have to lower the heat, lower the power, and probably one or two other changes. In short, might as well replace it.

[nepacaka]

Making the special ability just a heat transfer skill still makes the skill "suicidal". Even moreso since you don't deal any damage. Alternatively you'll have people complaining that Incinerator has an ability that is basically almost an EMP device on command.

 

nope. it not suicidal cuz you can activate it while walking, like an Assault. I remember you, now you can't move several sacond if press ability.

use transfer heat when stand in fight.

when you play on Assault and press ability in close-fight it is something suicidal too? no.

more suicidal abilities have a Raider and G2-raider. =)

 

about "EMP" effect... Well, this is just an "abstract" proposal (without numbers). For example it can working a few seconds and increase the coefficient of nearbly enemy heat generation, but not to increase the level of heat directly. No more EMP effect. Ok.

 

 

Baby does *not* need spin time. At all.

 

it have a little spin time early, and it was fine.

before devs decrease PPA heat generation and delete "high risk" conception, and make a BBY useless.

 

 

and Mama shoots too slow and too weak for it to be normal.

 

You probably never seen "2 Inci with MAMA + 1 inci with PPA" team in Siege mode on lostEco.

You starting gain alot of splash damage all the time, if trying stick your nose out from base =) but, you are right. 3 Inci with PPA working more effectively.

 

 

Also if you make the secondary essentally a grenade launcher... then why not make it a grenade launcher?

 

Grenade Launcher don't have two different fire-mode, with different heat generations to each other.

It is obvious.

also SAARE shot a little faster and don't have a manual detonation.

 

 

Also the Papa would have to be completely redone (and at that point might as well be another weapon) with your suggestions. Papa works as a high heat weapon only because of its secondary. That aside, you'd have to lower the heat, lower the power, and probably one or two other changes. In short, might as well replace it.

 

Maybe.

Edited by nepacaka, 31 March 2015 - 04:45 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

Baby isn't useless in its current form. It's for suppressing fire. It's not as strong or has the range of rockets but it's still good for surpressing. Why do you keep saying it's useless?

 

Also, I don't think adding a special attack effect would be given to the SAARE. Secondaries generally don't have additional effects outside of, for ballistic weapons, potental tracking/splash damage/early detonation. Stuff like that is saved for items of certain primary weapons. I could be wrong, but chances are it would become a KLA variant. Alternatively the weapon would be replaced.

 

"You probably never seen "2 Inci with MAMA + 1 inci with PPA" team in Siege mode on lostEco."

 

I have to say that is an awfully specific situation. Besides, I said that the Mama would be too weak as a normal weapon without its heat abilities.

[FlamingBeaker]

More debate and balancing ideas found here, and countless other places:

 

https://community.pl...eta-stay-or-go/

 

My vote goes for P4P4 nerf + eliminate Tech's self-heal from heal/vamp beam, or make Incin only available vs. bots.

 

For players having trouble running P4P4, try thinking of it as less of a weapon, and more as a heat generator w/benefits.

 

Recycled post:

 

"Well, I guess I admit defeat. Even after throwing everything at the wall ( Slow-mo SAARE! Heat-powered EOC pucks! Immobile when firing SAARE! Huge damage nerf! Slow down primary's ROF! Swap the SAARE for a short-range flamethower!) , nothing sticks.

 

I'm still left with a mech that has near unlimited ammo, enables my teammates to fire longer, has multiple area-of-effect weaponry, and a ton of armor."

 

If you rework it too much (like a Grenadier analogue), it's not really an Incinerator anymore, and you lose the fun keep it spinning/don't overheat/arc my shots or hitscan balancing act that makes it so fun to play.

Edited by FlamingBeaker, 31 March 2015 - 06:00 PM.

[Grollourdo]

This was a suggestion I made in a previous thread talking about the incin+tech combo

I posted these ideas to balance out the incin on the battle field.

Hey ok I just thought of something why not the incin can strip out heat from enemies too I mean come on its kinda logic if u absorb heat how can it be absorbed pricisely from specific mechs? Lol of course the incin can give the heat back with its ability but it could still take it again XD this could be cool since then players can take advantage of the enemy incin get it?

Then if there are two incins in different teams then in a team fight the invins will strip off the heat of all nearby heat which could be shared between both incins depending on how much of the heat is there and how close the incins are to the heat sources XD

Then, incins can also steal heat from enemy incins which is kinda nagating the enemy heat supporter for the team

Enemy incinn can also take the heat in the other incin which becomes a conflict between who could take the heat and negate it from the enemy if this makes sense. This would reenforce the incins supportive aspect and gameplay

Then maybe we can also criple all incins to take damage if they have too much heat XD this could also be played with using tactics letting the enemy take ur heat so he takes damage or something get me?

[Leonhardt]

I think it should get nerfed before it gets an audio change, lest I be tempted to play it again.

 

Right now it gives me a headache. Spent way to much time in one in TPG S1 and I can't stand the cacophony anymore.

 

As far as the sound goes... I have to admit I turned down the in game volume and blasted music throughout S1 and S2 whenever using Incin (which was pretty much every game S1). Its just so damn loud and it NEVER STOPS!

 

P.S. Some of you probably expect me to comment on applying the "nerf hammer" to this mech as I have a ton of experience using the thing in competitive play. As it stands I honestly don't care if the thing is nerfed into the ground or only a bit because I'd like a break from using it. Maybe go back to good ol heat cannon. Anyway good luck getting it nerfed into oblivion, I am cheering you guys on!

 

P.S.S. If the devs want my actual opinion on the matter I'll give it, but I'm rather inclined at the moment to keep my mouth shut. If the issue is really large enough for them to warrant asking me then I'm more than happy to help, but I'm sure you guys will find something reasonable (if not its a win/win for me) lol.

 

 

OH and it wouldn't be a Leon post without some 80's so here ya go. Deeper meaning? I think so.

 

Spoiler

[FlamingBeaker]

Funny, when I first got the Incinerator I thought of it as a walking Bongo Drum machine.

[nepacaka]

If you rework it too much (like a Grenadier analogue), it's not really an Incinerator anymore, and you lose the fun keep it spinning/don't overheat/arc my shots or hitscan balancing act that makes it so fun to play.

 

it's not really an Incinerator anymore, it is turned into a more better incinirator. with many features.

 

i say

All of my suggestion turned Incinerator into a Brawler or Grenadier C-class analog.

With this changes Incin turn into a Main-Tank / Support with ability to management enemies overheat, force the enemies to overheat at inappropriate time for them and then kill while they can't shoot (only if you use ability correct!)

 

All of this make the Inci an interest mech to play, with difference tactics and some gameplay nuances.

 

But you don't want it. You just want play on "Infinity pew-pew tech-lover Mech". Right?

 

i propose you more variatively gameplay for inci, more tactics, different weapons. but you want "one-button pew-pew machine" - ok. i see. problem not in inci. problem in people like you. :D

 

 

Baby isn't useless in its current form.

 

when you increase you mmr and winrate percentage, maybe you starting understand, why it is useless. I do not know how to explain to you the obvious things.

Edited by nepacaka, 31 March 2015 - 09:45 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

Baby is suppression fire, and is a decent weapon in a direct firefight. If the Baby is useless, so is the submachine cannon. 

 

And I still don't agree with your ability suggestion.

 

Incinerator already has variety. You have suppression Inc, High risk power Inc, and Enemy Heating Inc. It is a unique mech in the game. With unique weapons. Built around a unique heat system. More variety? You want changes on the mech, fine, but your changes are *not* adding variety.

[LarryLaffer]

There isn't any kind of suppression mechanics in Hawken. This is not Battlefield. BBY is a decent weapon in direct firefight indeed, but it doesn't do any damage at mid-range combat. PPA is just better at that. And even SMC is better at that. All suppressive mechs do quite high damage and annoy enemies. That's the way they suppress. 10 points damage per second won't suppress even Scout.
 

This works well when you are alone, but what about when you are surrounded by enemies/teammates who all give you so much extra heat to deal with ? Seems to me that you can hardly get the gun going before it's overheated and the fireballs are hard to land on flying enemies so you only have one weapon which is gimped if the enemy decides to go airborne.
Of course the heat stealing is pretty random so it's hard to take that in your rhythm calculations and it really messes you up.

Well, you just have to adjust to this kind of situations. It's a little bit harder, but still possible. And it's not that hard ho hit flying targets with such high ROF weapon.

Edited by LarryLaffer, 31 March 2015 - 10:29 PM.

[nepacaka]

but it doesn't do any damage at mid-range combat.

 

it doesn't do any damage in close range too, lol ;D

 

You have suppression Inc, High risk power Inc, and Enemy Heating Inc.

 

why you need you use baby or mama if ppa deal as twice much more damage?

you think when you constantly shooting from ppa you can't supress enemies? lol, u just do it faster.

 

 

You have suppression Inc, High risk power Inc, and Enemy Heating Inc.

 

i already told you. papa is not high risk weapon, because incin can never overheating with this weapon. i don't see any risk when you walking around and shooting big fireballs on c/d in any direction.

 

bby is not supression - it is dumb weapon. no heat = no damage = no supression. mech ability almost useless with baby. because you don't have a heat. also, no big fireballs here. no heat = no shooting big firebals on c/d from SAARE

 

mama is working more or less, in close fight, but, ppa is still deal x2 more damage if compared with other. mama is harder to use (i mean hitting from distance). ppa will cope with any task better and faster. so why complicate your life?

Edited by nepacaka, 31 March 2015 - 11:04 PM.

[LarryLaffer]

it doesn't do any damage in close range too, lol ;D

Well, let's be honest here, Nepa ;) . It does 100DPS in CQB. Add 80DPS from small SAARE fireballs and you'll get summary DPS a little bit higher than on Assault with AR. But damage falloff on BBY is quite harsh especially in comparison with PPA.

[Panzermanathod]

If power is your sole reasoning for saying the Baby is useless, then let's stop talking about it. Because you think that just because the Baby cannot hit as hard makes it a useless weapon.

 

And, again, Papa *is* high risk. Saying it never overheats implies a pilot can never overheat it, which is false. It is also impractical in certain situations. Once more just because a skilled user can use it effectively (and it does take skill to use it effectively, as with any other weapon) does not mean it is not high risk. High risk implies, in this situation, how easy it is to overheat, and the consequences of it overheating.

 

It is very, very easy to overheat with Papa if one isn't careful. If you find me ignorant, go on ahead, but you cannot tell me "There is no risk because it never overheats" because that is objectively wrong, even if a good rythym (and hopefully allies not overheating you) can keep it from overheating.

 

And I do use the Baby for suppressing/support fire along with the SAARE. I would not give up that weapon. Also, keep in mind that the Incinerator absorbs teammates heat. Under optimal conditions the Baby is not the only heatsource you have (Incinerator is a *support* mech, remember?). Baby is, for the Incinerator, a general purpose weapon as well.