153 replies to this topic

[MomOw]

Fair enough.

 

I still say Mama should still cause overheating. Really, if that gets taken away there's almost no point in using it.

 

As for my other questions? I really am curious.

 

I'd say because of lower DPS and not being hitscan

Edited by MomOw, 25 April 2015 - 04:52 PM.

[Grollourdo]

I think the incin is already good how it is ...


THE ONLY problem I think that might be a Lil unfair, would be incin + tech.
But I don't think we should solve this with needs or removals... Maybe just some "problematics" or challenges when using the combos...

My opinion

[Titanus]

yes its got great dps...provided your target stays on the ground or is flying around near a wall.  trying to hit a 'zerker while they dart around in the sky is next to impossible.  its also very difficult to hit B class and C class if those classes have air dodge

 

i do really well with the incinerator but when my targets spends most of the fight flying around ill be lucky to kill some A class before i die.

 

not only do i have to time my very slow projectiles on where the target MIGHT be, but i also have to account for an arc and unlike the grenadier i cant blow up my projectile mid flight so if it passes inches from my target then i have to build up more heat to launch another salvo.  

 

 

when im playing incinerator and get beat its usually by a dodgy 'zerker or inf.  so lets nurf their speeds please and make it so they cant air dodge, in fact make it so no one can air dodge THEN you can tone down the inc dps.

Edited by Titanus, 25 April 2015 - 06:34 PM.

[MomOw]

The fact about incin' is that it's hard to learn / easy to master, so it's not a good Mech with the actual balance.

[MomOw]

After having spent quite a few time with incin', I now think it's weapons / heat management should be changed back to normal.

Having a smash ability without cooldown for dealing with overheat and actual drawback is nice.

Having low burst / rather high DPS secondary is also a change in gameplay compared to other Mechs.

 

I still don't like the fact that all its primary have the same model.

 

So my new suggestion :

- keep its ability

- remove the heat transfer, change is overheat recovery to the same as brawler

- Primary weapons

make it start with a point-D vulcan, alternate redox, prestige minigun (with should be a kind of SMC in terms of range and DPS, that shot 2 burst of 3 bullets, maybe keep the 11HPS and add some heat debuff)

- Secondary weapons

uncharged SAARE : 50 dmg per shots, rof 1.33, ~7 HPS

charged SAARE : 90 dmg (same huge radius), rof 0.5, ~4HPS, same heat debuff

 

this way you should :

- have an easier mech to balance

- keep a dakka dakka pow mech that has high DPS and can also act as support with redox / heat debuff.

- keep a high heat generation that can be dealt with its ability

[Panzermanathod]

But why get rid of unique weapons?

[MomOw]

I kepts the model for prestige, and unique prestige is how I like them.

BABY and PAPA are just SMC/Point6D look alike built around the incin' actual gameplay, only MAMA is kind of unique but a minigun that shot exploding stuff... no! XD

[Panzermanathod]

No, they are unique weapons in their own right.

 

Also, if you have a problem with exploding bullets like MAMA, what about the Tech's default Primary?

[Hyginos]

I think I have a thematically appropriate change that could make the incin much more interesting an alleviate some of the concerns. After discussing the PPA with merl for a bit I came to agree with him that the weapon should really be only effective at really close range. So why not replace the PPA with a flamethrower?

 

The heat transfer from the saare is a pretty dodgy mechanic already, so you could move it onto a flame thrower that has similar stats to PPA but an absurd spread and a very close range. Not only that, but you get to stay thematically consistent and add a more interesting weapon.

[PepeKenobi]

My uncle told me that

 

maybe by reducing the secondary's range by default pretty much (so to make it inherently functional at close/medium range by its reworked "ballistic arc") plus allowing to charge the secondary to enlarge its weapon range with some more of extra damage "to balance the equation" might soften the current Incinerator OP factor very much.

 

I just pasted and copied what he told me.

[Durandal1707]

Incinerator on first place ?

pics or didn't happen.

Clearly you haven't see me playing

[MechFighter5e3bf9]

i find the gren far more lethal, the fireballs wont hit decent players more than once or twice they are too easy to see

[Meraple]

i find the gren far more lethal, the fireballs wont hit decent players more than once or twice they are too easy to see

If you're not decent with hitting it, then yes, it won't hit decent players.

As long as you can however it's OP for a reason.

[The_Silencer]

unlimited power..

 

where is that picture? nvm

[Rainbow_Sheep]

unlimited power..

where is that picture? nvm

Although I prefer this one

[PepeKenobi]

unlimited power..

 

where is that picture? nvm

Hahahahah

 

I see the point you made..... having a mech able of firing forever isn''t much appretiated when you the guy being targeted by it... yes?

[Panzermanathod]

I've been on both end of an unlimited stream of bullets.

 

And been killed by other mechs faster.

 

*shrugs*

[nepacaka]

No, they are unique weapons in their own right.

 

baby = SMC

papa = old version of Vulcan-D.

where his weapons are unique? xD

 

only mama actually.

[Panzermanathod]

does nepacaka hate me or something?

 

Incinerator has unique weapons as in it has weapons no other mech has. Unlike, say, SMC, which several other mechs have.

 

Also, if the Papa was like the old Vulcan-D, then it must have sucked. Unless you aren't including the heat build up, in which case your comparison doesn't really hold water.

[DeeRax]

 

Well that's a nice idea but under that banner the Tech should have no Offensive weapons and the Inc should just be a walking heat siphon for the team.

 

Well........... Uh... Yeah? Problem?
(Not being completely serious with that... But  they are supposed to be "support" mechs)

OP or not...  Incin comes off mostly as a hastily/lazily-designed, last-minute cash grab before ADH went under. Neat idea, unimaginative implementation. 3 of the same boring primary weapon with different stats? Gimme' a freaking break already. WHy even bother creating a new primary if you were just going to re-hash it two more times on the same mech? Just giving it a vulcan, miniflak, and heat cannon would have been more interesting.

(Tech is a not too distant 2nd, BTW. "LOL let's just put the TF2 medic in our game.")

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 11 June 2015 - 06:36 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

OP or not...  Incin comes off mostly as a hastily/lazily-designed, last-minute cash grab before ADH went under. Neat idea, unimaginative implementation (3 of the same primary weapon with different stats? Gimme' a freaking break already).

 

I don't know... the whole heat mechanic isn't particularly unimaginative to me. The heat thing is literally the main reason I got it as my second purchased mech.

 

Incin is very much support save for the Papa primary (to the point where people don't consider it a support mech for that *one* weapon). And 3 of the same primary weapon with different stats? Assault/CR-T is far more guilty of that. At least Mama is a different sort of weapon, You can say something similar of Reaper/Sharpshooter. Not to mention how many mechs share weapons.

 

But a mech with a new set of weapons (with more variety than Assault/Fred)? Unimaginative? More imaginative than a lot of the other mechs at least.

[DeeRax]

I don't know... the whole heat mechanic isn't particularly unimaginative to me. The heat thing is literally the main reason I got it as my second purchased mech.

Did you tl;dr? That's the "neat idea" part, I fully endorse it. A heat management mech is super cool.
The rest of the mech is pretty bland TBH (Its weapons and the specific way it manages heat).

(And I'd argue there is way more variety between the AR, SMC, and Vulcan, than the three B34Rs which all have the same model, sound, and basic mechanics; They are literally the same weapon, different stats).
(The SAARE is pretty cool I guess. A straight up flamethrower might have been cooler though. I mean, they already put the TF2 medic in the game, might as well add Pyro too).

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 11 June 2015 - 06:49 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

I responded to you saying the implementation was unimaginative. I don't know, having played a number of games where overheating is a thing, using said heat as ammo for weapons is unique in its own right.

 

Also, not the same weapons. Baby and Papa, sure, you can argue that. But saying Mama is the same as the others is factually false. It's closer to REDOX than Baby/Papa.

 

I'm talking about what they do, not that the weapons are just different sizes of drum magazines.

 

And not the same sounds.

[DeeRax]

Ehh, no, they pretty much all do the same thing. They are all miniguns. That pretty much look the same. And pretty much sound the same.
Different stats, and somewhat different playstyles........ Sort of......... Except they are all basically fundamentally still the same minigun................................
I mean, I get what you're saying.....................

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 11 June 2015 - 07:13 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

I do not get your reasoning in saying they all do the same thing, and then say that SMC/AR/Vulcan have more variety overall. Two shoots bullets, one shoots tiny fireballs in an arc and raise heat generation. Yes, Papa and Mama are best at Heat generation but the Incinerator needs that. They're all miniguns but that's not really an issue. All the flak cannons are shotguns, doesn't mean they all act the same.

 

Somewhat different playstyles? I've mained an Incin and you cannot tell me that the same playstyle one would have with Papa would work with Baby or Mama. And don't say heat generation to shoot SAARE a bunch of time, because bringing that up where other players can shoot both weapons at once is not fair.

[DeeRax]

I do not get your reasoning in saying they all do the same thing, and then say that SMC/AR/Vulcan have more variety overall. Two shoots bullets, one shoots tiny fireballs in an arc and raise heat generation. Yes, Papa and Mama are best at Heat generation but the Incinerator needs that. They're all miniguns but that's not really an issue. All the flak cannons are shotguns, doesn't mean they all act the same.

 

Somewhat different playstyles? I've mained an Incin and you cannot tell me that the same playstyle one would have with Papa would work with Baby or Mama. And don't say heat generation to shoot SAARE a bunch of time, because bringing that up where other players can shoot both weapons at once is not fair.

*shrug* Ok, I can concede most of that. You are not wrong, certainly.
Still doesn't mean the models, sounds, and basic function of the incin's primaries aren't just lazy and/or rushed work, though. At least the ar/smc/vulcan and the flaks all FEEL like completely different weapons, even if their functionality is similar. Though, mostly, they all play differently too, even. I'd still argue the incin's prims have less variety
"OK, which minigun do I want to use today? There's this sort of neat slightly different one, and then there are these other two."

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 11 June 2015 - 07:57 PM.

[DeeRax]

I'd prefer to see it keep baby bear or get vulcan as main primary, then get re-dox and heat cannon (Or SOMETHING) as unlocks. Something about 3 different but really, really similar miniguns just rubs me the wrong way, I dunno. (The fact that the INCINERATOR didn't get the HEAT CANNON is amusing). And, yeah, I don't know anything about putting goofy weapons combos on different mechs and unbalancing the game, I know, I know, just slinging ideas around. That's why I haven't joined in the arguments of OP vs. Not OP. I don't know about that. But I do know from personal experience that the Incin is bland, and that Incin + Tech is blandx2 and always frustrating.

I know lots of folks love the Incin, I'm not trying to fuzzy bunny on them. Personally, I played it for about an hour before getting really, really bored with it (And, yeh, I know that's a DUMB amount of time to make a judgement, but I just couldn't get into it). I like the idea of heat manipulation, I just think it could be done better and more originally, that is my main point. Turning one of the game's main combat limits into your source of ammo is pretttttttty silly from a game mechanics standpoint.

(Sorry for double post)

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 11 June 2015 - 08:20 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

Incinerator not getting the Heat Cannon is fine. Given it's main gimmick having that wouldn't help the Incin much.

 

As for using heat as ammo... I liked it. Granted it's biggest strength is also its biggest downfall. You overheat with it (which is possible with any weapon, despite claims otherwise), and while it has the shortest cool down, all its primaries have a start up period  (Baby's is the least noticable), and the SAARE is unusable until you get heat build up.

 

Also, as an FPS, I'm not sure how much different Incin's heat manipulation can really be. It absorbs heat, causes others to overheat, uses heat as ammo or as an attack, has 2 weapons that generates high heat... It's mechanics original as far as other mechs in this game are concerned. I'm not saying it's implementation is perfect, but it is unique among the mech lineup. Sure it's three primaries are miniguns but you can't say the Incin is bland without talking about how other mechs share weapons. Look at Assault/CRT/Beserker.

 

Also, have you used the Papa or the Mama yourself? You said you played it for an hour before getting bored with it. Did you continue or just drop it?

[DeeRax]

I... Uh... Tend to unlock a lot of weapons early when I want to try something new.

(I'M A GRAPHIC DESIGNER. $s AT VIDYA GAYMES YO. PARTY ALL THE TIME (My wife hates this (Except she does the same thing with other f2p games (And she is also a graphic designer (We are both graphics artists (She is reading this right now)))))).

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 11 June 2015 - 08:40 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

Ah, alright. As an Incinerator player I'm required to tell you that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about,  making me the victor!  Man I need a good 3D art program.

[DeeRax]

Blender's good if you want free and have patience with clunkiness. Same applies to GIMP, for skins, alphas, etc. Tons of good tuts for both.
Milkshape is aight if you want slightly less (Or more?) clunky, and a little more $.
Adobe Cloud if got $$$$$$$$$ (Or a company that will pay for it for you) and want easy-mode (Though, 3D?? Hmm. 3D modeling is not my specialty, I'm a 2D + audio/visual sort of dude)

 

(Off topic).

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 11 June 2015 - 08:54 PM.

[Source_Mystic]

I think I have a thematically appropriate change that could make the incin much more interesting an alleviate some of the concerns. After discussing the PPA with merl for a bit I came to agree with him that the weapon should really be only effective at really close range. So why not replace the PPA with a flamethrower?

 

The heat transfer from the saare is a pretty dodgy mechanic already, so you could move it onto a flame thrower that has similar stats to PPA but an absurd spread and a very close range. Not only that, but you get to stay thematically consistent and add a more interesting weapon.

I personally like the incinerator.   Not one incinerator  player I know uses baby and mamma everyone uses papa for the aoe.    so if i was to change something it would be those two guns. As a support mech it is like the grenadier  but the two play very differently.   I can spam more grenades with grenadier faster than the incinerator  but when a class are hovering around me I just stomp there weak a$$ .. Serves you  right for getting that close.

 

  I like the chain up heat mechanic and how it plays different from other mechs it is effective at suppressing so I like it the way it is....I like the idea of a flame thrower but with the heat mechanic  and the saare launcher. I do not see how that is possible. I  do not want to loose a solid support because someone want another up close and personal  mech.   You want that play the g2 raider it has the strongest  cqc burst in the game .

 

 

You want a flame throwing mech that does not use the same chain up as the incinerator  there is a easy fix make a new mech  do not take the one gun that every on uses on the incinerator and nerf it  instead give us two better options for babby and mamma cause they are complete SH*T

Edited by Source_Mystic, 16 June 2015 - 02:31 AM.

[Grollourdo]

Oh my god its been a long time since I've posted on a incin or tech related thread XD

I'm glad people are actually suggesting reworks on the incin instead of the tech lol....

AND FOR THOWS WHO STILL DO THEN NO THE TECH IS GOOD AS IT IS XD lol

[Grollourdo]

Oh my god its been a long time since I've posted on a incin or tech related thread XD

I'm glad people are actually suggesting reworks on the incin instead of the tech lol....

AND FOR THOWS WHO STILL DO THEN NO THE TECH IS GOOD AS IT IS XD lol

Edit : oups... I posted twice by accident

Edited by Grollourdo, 16 June 2015 - 03:19 AM.