31 replies to this topic

[DeeRax]

The vulcan is not a weapon I usually like, but I was playing vanguard with a vulcan yesterday, on a whim, and had some fun with it, and did pretty well with it actually. And then I wondered if running a grenadier with the vulcan would be a better choice, because of it's ability. I'll probably try it out myself tonight.

Just wondering if anyone else has had experience with both of these mechs, using the vulcan on both, and which they prefer, and why, tips & suggestions they can offer, etc.

[OdinTheWise]

yes, vulcan gren is much better, i have been using vulcan gren a bit lately

[Kindos7]

Vuclan gren blasphemy: no explosives.

[Hyginos]

IMO miniflak is a bit better on vanguard than vulcan simply because the dps is higher and it has no spin up.

 

As for vulgren vs vulcan vanguard, vulgrens only real disadvantage to the vanguard is a slightly slower speed and now turret mode. The statement above is another reason why it is unlikely I would choose a vulcan vanguard.

 

With that said, vulcan vanguard is not a weak mech by any stretch of the imagination.

Edited by Hyginos, 19 June 2015 - 01:13 PM.

[TheButtSatisfier]

A vulcan grenadier will out DPS a vulcan vanguard by using its ability. The grenadier's ability increases damage for both the grenade and for the vulcan (which isn't clear from it's ingame description). The grenadier also has more health than the vanguard at the expense of speed.

[Kittles]

I still think Vulcan needs to be taken off the Vanguard, and replaced with a burst weapon. All it has are sustain weapons, and the Vanguard and Grenadier are the only 2 mechs of the same weight class that share an identical weapon loadout.

 

I'm thinking the Vanguard could use a T-32 Bolt, as it gives it decent burst and DPS potential. It gives it something very close to the Flak/GL loadout that people want, without butting in on the Brawler's territory.

 

Reason I don't think Gren should be the one having it replaced is due to it having been given the Vulcan way before the Vanguard even existed, and the Gren already has 2 other weapons that function quite differently. Mechs having options that create different playstyles is a good thing. Enough with the Sustain/Sustain/Sustain mechs (Berserker, Vanguard, Assault, CR-T, Bruiser, Incinerator, Technician, G2 Assault).

[Dew]

Vulcan Grenadier tends to be better because it's fatter and has the damage boost ability, which lets you be out in the open longer (required with a Vulcan) and do more damage (kind of the point). Both SMC and Mini-flak are better choices for the Vanguard, imo.

[Panzermanathod]

 Mechs having options that create different playstyles is a good thing.

 

Except the Tech. It's broken and doesn't fit in the game.

Or the Incin. It's also broken and doesn't fit the game.

Or the Rocketeer. It's broken in the other direction. Hellfires suck.

Or Predator. It's hard, and his EOC Repeater is useless.

Or G2 Raider. It's broken in both directions.

 

Joking aside, I never tried vulcan with either of them, although FlakGuard was never something I got used too. I haven't gotten it ranked up to get Vulcan yet.

[Kittles]

Except the Tech. It's broken and doesn't fit in the game.

Or the Incin. It's also broken and doesn't fit the game.

Or the Rocketeer. It's broken in the other direction. Hellfires suck.

Or Predator. It's hard, and his EOC Repeater is useless.

Or G2 Raider. It's broken in both directions.

I'm just talking from a game design perspective. What you're pointing out is a failure of weapon design/balancing. Adhesive never seemed to have put much thought into what weapons actually belong on what mechs, or even how the design of the weapon even benefitted the class. This is why I'm hoping Reloaded are willing to take a look at how the mechs are currently configured, and make changes that promote better balance, and more variety in how combat plays out.

Edited by Kittles, 19 June 2015 - 03:30 PM.

[DeeRax]

Vanguard with t-32 could be neat, though I'd imagine that'd render the g2 Raider obsolete.

But yeah, having tried both (van & gren w/vulcan), I can't see any reason to choose vanguard over grenadier, if I'm using the vulcan. Which makes me wonder why the Vanguard was given the vulcan at all. It should have something else instead... But I don't know what that would be...

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 19 June 2015 - 02:29 PM.

[EM1O]

if i'm gonna have a 40 ton Berzerker, i'll need the Vulcan on my C frame mech, regardless of which one (imagine a Brawler air-attacking. mindless confusion).

if i'm gonna be tanking, it's gotta be the SMC Vanguard, Rev-GL for Gren, Flak on Brawler.

depending on the map, HEAT is awesome splasherific on Gren (Origin, Uptown, Wreckage)

be flexible, don't sit on one weapon--each has its advantages for different play. get good on all of them, then you can go it with what works best.

[Amidatelion]

The Vulcan is good on the Vanguard if you can't aim, because even though the mini-flak's spread is acceptable, the vulcan's is even better. But if you have any pretensions at aiming the miniflak is win-mode.

 

Vulcan Gren is strictly better than Vulcan Vanguard as its heat capacity is higher and its ability just makes it stupidly good. Slap a failsafe on there and face-check people into oblivion.

[Panzermanathod]

I'm just talking from a game design perspective. What you're pointing out is a failure of weapon design/balancing.t.

What I did was try to be funny. I wasn't being serious, and I said as much in the post.

[Teljaxx the Unintentional]

Vulcan Grenadier is one of my main mechs, and has been for quite a while.

 

In Ascention, it had the fastest dodge cooldown and highest heat capacity of any C-Class. Along with better armor than the Vanguard, but better maneuverability than the Brawler. I have always felt that the Brawler is too slow, and the Vanguard is not tough enough, so the Grenadier is a nice balance between the two.

 

And even though it does not have its super fast dodge cooldown anymore, it is still the best Vulcan C-Class. I like the GL more than the TOW, and now that it no longer is limited by turret mode, it is even better. The only downside to using the Vulcan with its new ability is that it doesn't benefit from it, making it less effective than the HEAT or REV-GL in that sense. But since the GL still does, it can still greatly increase the Grenadier's deadliness.

 

Pretty much the only advantage the Vanguard has over the Grenadier in my opinion, is that the Brass chassis looks like a big metal butt, but the Bunker chassis is awesome. But, since you can change that, the Vanguard still loses.

[Flifang]

From a health V.S. Dps comparison yes the Vulcan gren will win. But that's boring. Hawken has more depth than that. That's why this game isn't boring. I agree the vangaurd could use a burst weapon, but I think the t32 falloff is a bit harsh on it. Then again the t32 falloff is too harsh in my opinion. I love weapons that change playstyle and I welcome more in the game.

[nepacaka]

Vulcan vanguard in turret mode (with boost) can sticky to gren and kill it, even gren while in ability :D

Actually, I always don't love vanguard cuz he don't have a variation, if compared with other C's.
Smc - close fight, mflak - close fight, Vulcan - close too,
It is sad :(

Edited by nepacaka, 19 June 2015 - 09:55 PM.

[nepacaka]

Spoiler

Or G2 Raider. It's broken in both directions.

R2G2, not broken. He is just rare. It is just required from player 70-80% accuracy, or you never win :D

Edited by nepacaka, 19 June 2015 - 09:49 PM.

[Rainbow_Sheep]

The Grenadier is actually one of the more nimble 'true' C classes (I.E not the incin or vanguard)

 

The damage boost ability and the larger health pool means at this point in time the Vulcan Grenadier outclasses the Vulcan Vanguard.

[SparkyJJC]

I use the Vulcan Vanguard sometimes, and it's by no means bad, it's just the Vulcan Grenadier is better at it. If you prefer speed+vulcan over health+vulcan+larger damage then by all means use the Vanguard Vulcan, but the MiniFlak is where the Vanguard truly shines.

Edited by SparkyJJC, 20 June 2015 - 01:56 AM.

[Meraple]

Something I haven't seen anyone mention is that it's easier to stick to your target with Vulcan Vanguard due to more speed.

However as everyone else has been saying, Vulcan Gren ftw.

[Panzermanathod]

Spoiler

R2G2, not broken. He is just rare. It is just required from player 70-80% accuracy, or you never win :D

And with 80% accuracy, you always win!

 

Turkeys are scary.

[EM1O]

i would so love to have HEAT cannon on G2R--as an Alt, as with proper care and love, the T32-Bolt is a 2 punch kill on many mechs with a MIRV hit.

as for power, Vulcan is what i run on my Vanguard, and suprisingly i got my first CBD badge with a setup almost identical to Hashashin's in his Steam tutorial. I also did it the same way with my Brawler. Vulcan can be monster weapon when used properly, if you accept that you are going to be doing a lot of facehugging (and risk more than usual deaths as well). just like G2Raider, sneaky is as sneaky does. that " Surprise, M.F.!!!" factor can be everything.

[HepTagoN]

Vulcan gren - my lil love one mech. No vanguard can match vulcan gren. Going 1v1 with turreted one is not a big deal. Just boost toward duck, and hop on it. He'll have hard time aiming his nades. Moreover - if we are talking about regular matches (instead of fightclubs), just throw EMP at duck and have him for a snack. Also, remeber that by proper using nades u can damage turrents from behind, while being in front of them. Just throw nade lil above their asses, and detonate nade while it fly over and behind them.

 

Any mech that wont keep distance will die due to vulcan gren dmg + decent hp pool combination. Trick is to actually get close to your victim, and aim grenades properly. Because vulcan does literally 0 dmg except some close-mid range. And grenades are slow as fuzzy bunny.

 

If u wanna test vulcan gren capabilities, call me and we'll run some 1v1 'experiments' ;)

Edited by HepTagoN, 21 June 2015 - 01:08 AM.

[MechFighter5e3bf9]

A vulcan grenadier will out DPS a vulcan vanguard by using its ability. The grenadier's ability increases damage for both the grenade and for the vulcan (which isn't clear from it's ingame description). The grenadier also has more health than the vanguard at the expense of speed.

but what if the vanguard is using turret mode? cant just get around that like other mechs so grens dmg buf gets countered by turret shield

[Amidatelion]

but what if the vanguard is using turret mode? cant just get around that like other mechs so grens dmg buf gets countered by turret shield

 

EMP. Who needs a damage buff when they have +60% damage from the rear and you have grenades.

[TheButtSatisfier]

but what if the vanguard is using turret mode? cant just get around that like other mechs so grens dmg buf gets countered by turret shield

 

Simply put, a grenadier's ability is going to be useful in many more situations than a vanguard's turret mode.

 

A turreted vanguard in a hallway or next to a chokepoint is like any tank role in any game - you're going to get shot at a lot, you won't do a lot of damage in return, but hopefully you draw sufficient aggro that the enemy gets distracted and flanked when they otherwise wouldn't. To use it properly you have to balance (1) being far away enough from your teammates so the inevitable EMP you will receive doesn't paint them against (2) establishing a useful zone of control. There are few opportunities when you can achieve the right amount of each. It's a vanguard - it's the lightest C class there is, it's fast, it can use a mini-flak and SMC, get in there and mix it up. Most times it's a travesty to drop into turret mode.

 

I'm saying all of this as a grenadier player btw. Most times I see a turreted vanguard I figure I'm being baited and check my surroundings before making a decision. I don't play vanguard, so experienced players who run vanguard will probably have a more educated opinion.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 22 July 2015 - 06:44 AM.

[MechFighter5e3bf9]

i enjoy taking people by surprise though and not camping in it and just plow up in them, droping my orbs when i see aggro from 2+ enemies then their own death orbs will cascade over me for the rest of the plowing over bodies and orbs

 

 and i aggree on the gren it is very much more usefull to me but then again i just dont do the van much anymore for same as  scout and infil im just sick n tired opf playing em and if i amnot in turret move as we are yet waiting for the round to start i will drop into it even if you get the drop on me from my FRONT i know i can still have time to turret mode before i die and soon as i  my turret plops to the ground, the orbs are already healing then your doomed, will need 2+ people to kill it on average but i enjoy the bad wrap turret mode has so i feel more like this is "my" mech my style but i also am disgusted with ignorance/misinformation, and anyone elses conflicting oppinions so i still say its a good tactic 

Edited by MechFighter5e3bf9, 23 July 2015 - 07:53 AM.

[WastingTime]

Depends on your play style
If you like to turtle then van
If you like to shove a grenades down your opponents throat with prejudice then the gren is for you

You can probably guess my preference... 

[MechFighter5e3bf9]

i kill more people with vans grenade launcher though cause smc lets me wither a guy down just where i know my nade will kill him once it gets there so i can start tracking next target with smc, rarely ever finish anyone with smc on purpose cause it risks accidentaly overheat with only minimal dmg for it compared to overheat with a final nade

[dorobo]

[ThatDamnedBoedy]

yep gren is nastier then vanguard in certain ways.  Vanguard has to be in turret mode to out do it and even then....this game is about speed and positioning so if the van is out of position in its turret mode it dies fast.

[Durandal1707]

(@ _ @)

 

beautiful