56 replies to this topic

[Erzunterweltler]

Hey-Ho, whoever wants to rage / discuss about the Scanner can do exactly that in this thread.

 

First of all, yes, I know the Scanner has already been mentioned in the one or the other corner of this forum, however, it hasn't got the attention it deserves (sooner or later somebody would have come up with this thread anyways, even though most of you should know about this topic). If there should already be a whole thread about Scanners, I'm sorry, I've overseen it then, just post the link to that thread in this case.
 

So, let's just start with the fact that the Scanner itself is broken, obviously that's the reason why it is banned from most of the tournaments.

Knowing where every single enemy in a certain range is can be considered to be like wallhacking. It can even catch cloaked Predators and Infiltrators and since they are good seeable when you know there actually is a cloaked Predator / Infiltrator, being catched by a Scanner is probably the worst thing that can happen to a Pred / Infil. Many of them use Scramblers to avoid this, but even then they can be caught because in periods of a few seconds the Scanner highlights all Mechs it catches, even the cloaked ones.

So the Scanner allows to control the situation, to control the battlefield in the range of the Scanner. It really should be fixed. I personally was using Scanners a lot, on nearly every Mech I was using three Scanners because they were and still are the best item besides the Orbs. I stopped using them a month ago and I appeal to you to not use them either until they have been nerfed.
 

 

There are different suggestions what to do with Scanners / how to nerf them, I actually just remember a few of them myself, so if you have some suggestionts you think are much better than the listed ones here, just add them below in a comment.

 

1) Delete them.

Meh, I have got mixed feelings when reading this one, even though I've met many players that had demanded exactly this. I think the concept of the Scanner is really good, imo the idea deserves a place in Hawken, it just has to be a non-broken item.

 

2) Decrease the range and lifetime.

Just decrease the range and lifetime of Scanners and on the other hand increase the range and the lifetime of Scramblers. It's a simple idea, which could help, but as I mentioned before, Scramblers really aren't the best items because for an experienced player it's pretty easy to distinguish the made-up targets on the radar from the logically separably moving, real enemies.
 

3) Add a sweep.

Instead of showing where every Mech in the range of the Scanner is the whole time, add a slowly rotating sweep, so only enemies being catched by the sweep are shown on the radar for a few seconds. I think it's a pretty good idea how to fix the Scanner, the best one I've heard so far.

 

Last, but not least, Scanners are quite good audible, so please, when you hear a Scanner, just take a few seconds to search and destroy it. When I see team members not even trying to destroy a Scanner right in front of them, I really could rage. So don't give Scanners a chance, they have to die! They have to die and burn in hell (as long as they haven't been nerfed)!

Edited by Erzunterweltler, 15 April 2015 - 06:09 AM.

[CrimsonKaim]

I used to use scanners, but now I got rid of them, because OP.

 

Maybe this fix could do: 

Scanners only scan the VISIBLE area. That means if placed inside a wall, it won't be very effective. If palced on an open field, it may be very very effective but it is just as easy to spot and destroy as it is effective in this case. :]

[MomOw]

I would keep it's range but greatly decrease the lifetime (~30s) so that it's main use is to be thrown prior an assault to check how many bad guys are hidden behind the wall.

[opicr0n]

3) Add a sweep.

Instead of showing where every Mech in the range of the Scanner is the whole time, add a slowly rotating sweep, so only enemies being catched by the sweep are shown on the radar for a few seconds. I think it's a pretty good idea how to fix the Scanner, the best one I've heard so far.

 

A sweep would be a good fix. And the speed of the sweep could be tweaked until the ultimate balance has been found.

[Elite_is_salty]

Scanners should get a major nerf. Also, you can't see a cloaked infil using scanner.

[Elite_is_salty]

A sweep would be a good fix. And the speed of the sweep could be tweaked until the ultimate balance has been found.

2?=5s

[Anichkov3]

Strange you request gentlemen. Remove scanners, Give completely invisible, let all air compressors ... And why no one will remember about the item of "Shield"? In my opinion this is what necessary to begin. A pile of armor - and in addition they can freely sketch three of them ... need to reduce the lifetime of the Shield a minimum twice as

[Erzunterweltler]

Scanners should get a major nerf. Also, you can't see a cloaked infil using scanner.

 

You can't? Hmm, I was pretty sure you could, I'll test that out later. However, thanks for the advice, I'll correct it.

[Dr_Freeze001]

During the ol' scrims with VP we agreed to not use scanners or scramblers. What I found out since then is that those games were a lot more fun. lots of flanking and sneaking potential. Never used them since.

 

I vote for 3, but [NOTE: went a bit off-topic]

Spoiler

would also like to suggest changing it to a "Ping" item. 

 

Example: You, a scoot, wants to know where the enemies are. When you deploy this 'Pinger' is sends out a wave, showing the location of enemies at the time this ping happens. The signatures would linger on that location. This is across the entire map, and shows on the friendly minimap.

 

Item Cooldown would be around 40 seconds.

 

I dunno, might be very OP if everyone carries 3 and pings every 5 seconds.

 

 

Might be better as an ability, nvm.

 

Edited by Dr_Freeze001, 25 March 2015 - 01:42 AM.

[Chocksa]

I say keep the range but add a sweep effect and add signal loss for each meter of wall the radar signal has to travel through. I am Ok with scanners scanning through walls but the signal strength should diminish the more walls it has to travel through.

Edited by Chocksa, 25 March 2015 - 01:42 AM.

[GalaxyRadio]

At first i loved that item, cause in many games around mmr 1500-2000 most players dont pay any attention to the radar, so i used it very often. Now in far better games with skilled pilots using brain&radar, this item is the worst you can use, because its like mentioned before, absolutly broken. It of course legal wallhack, you can pre aim tows/grenades or make a trap (Pred) or just wait behind a corner to alphastrike the enemy with item and fully loaded weapon.

 

But the worst part is in siege games. If the enemy have already the AA taken, a scanner (for example on origin placed under the bridge somewhere hard to find) or on a spot you can only reach by flying around the AA (i did the same at first), its annyoing, because you destroy any chance to suprise the enemy, as skilled player already now to use the radar just by hear what he can see around him (teammates) and what jump plattforms used (must be the enemy, if not teammate). So the  sound from the jumping plattforms are already on origin something like a warn signal...

 

Well, i don't like it to get destroyed from behind by a single blow, but thats the game, please ban the scanner completly and if not, let it just´make a "sound" of any enemy is nearby, but dont mark him on the radar, so you dont know where he is and have to search yourself.

 

Galaxy Radio

[Amidatelion]

You can't? Hmm, I was pretty sure you could, I'll test that out later. However, thanks for the advice, I'll correct it.

 

I hope Elite means that they shouldn't see cloaked mechs. Right now they show up as occasional pings on the radar.

 

As for re-works, I like my idea of a scanner that does a sweep of some speed of the battlefield, returning pings only as the arm passes over targets and quickly fading. All targets can see the radar when the arm passes over them.

 

I also like Hyginos' idea of making turrets line-of-sight radar, basically letting them act like mini, stationary teammates to spot enemies.

[LaurenEmily]

I use scanners with my pred. Good luck catching me off-guard.
They are ridiculous and should be removed though. Until that i will exploit this guilty-pleasure.

[Bunnykillkill]

I use scanners with my pred. Good luck catching me off-guard.
They are ridiculous and should be removed though. Until that i will exploit this guilty-pleasure.

 

I mean, is not being able to see trough walls while being transparent, having a breacher and a set of mines w8ting enough? You really gotta top that off with a scanner?

"*insert freudian qoute here*"

[CrimsonKaim]

I use scanners with my pred. Good luck catching me off-guard.
They are ridiculous and should be removed though. Until that i will exploit this guilty-pleasure.

 

Bad one you ...

[LaurenEmily]

Yes i know it's bad but i'm not gonna feel bad about it as long as it's just another perfectly legal way of playing the game. People with air compressors & orb setups are happily doing it too despite being frowned upon by the majority. Also i see a lot of techs with incins and they are just as bad.

[PoopSlinger]

I use it because I fuzzy bunnyNG CAN.

[Erzunterweltler]

I hope Elite means that they shouldn't see cloaked mechs. Right now they show up as occasional pings on the radar.

 

Okay, thanks for clearing that up, Elite just confused me

I'll recorrect it

[Erzunterweltler]

I use scanners with my pred. Good luck catching me off-guard.
They are ridiculous and should be removed though. Until that i will exploit this guilty-pleasure.

 

Well, back then Pred was the only Mech I had not played Scanners on, because I rated that as totally useless and I still do

[LaurenEmily]

Well, back then Pred was the only Mech I had not played Scanners on, because I rated that as totally useless and I still do

I do this mainly when there are other preds around because it allows you to see behind your back while you are tracking someone, super sneaky 

[Erzunterweltler]

I do this mainly when there are other preds around because it allows you to see behind your back while you are tracking someone, super sneaky 

 

You've got a point there, still, for Infil I would understand it more ^^

[crockrocket]

I like the sweep suggestion, but even that shouldn't pick up cloaked mechs.

[Jelooboi]

Lawful Evil: Scanners are part of the game. If you don't like it, don't play. 

#LOLOLMASTERTROLE2012

#GETREKT

#LRN2SCAN

 

[Erzunterweltler]

Lawful Evil: Scanners are part of the game. If you don't like it, don't play.

 

That doesn't change the fact that they have to be nerfed. I like the concept of the Scanner, but probably you didn't even read the original post.

 

 

1) Delete them.

Meh, I have got mixed feelings when reading this one, even though I've met many players that had demanded exactly this. I think the concept of the Scanner is really good, imo the idea deserves a place in Hawken, it just has to be a non-broken item.

[Paradox23]

I had just recently acquired a scanner for an assault mech; very useful tool it is, but I never did stop to consider whether it was too useful until noticing this thread.  I'd have to be mostly in favor of the sweep option, as it's not so broken that it warrants being removed entirely.  I mean if I remember right, if it animates by completing full rotations every second, one would think it already behaves that way instead of providing constant, live signal detection.  I don't know, maybe if it was more of a motion tracker as well? 

[CraftyDus]

Trash tier item.

Good players don't need it and won't use it.

I worry about you people using scanners. You obviously hate yourself.

You shouldn't. Just leave that to the rest of us. I promise we hate you plenty enough.

[Miscellaneous]

where is my cat video

[Rchive]

I like the idea of Scanner requiring line of sight. And maybe a pulse instead of a radial sweep? Something like a radar dish spinning around just seems kinda corny to me. Lol

[PepeKenobi]

I think Scanners should not render non-moving mechs on radar....... Maybe only if these get close to you within some fair minimum range (moving or not). Just an idea.

[BaronSaturday]

Yes i know it's bad but i'm not gonna feel bad about it as long as it's just another perfectly legal way of playing the game. People with air compressors & orb setups are happily doing it too despite being frowned upon by the majority. Also i see a lot of techs with incins and they are just as bad.

Who frowns on the AC? That sounds like someone who can't aim. I can't aim physically and it doesn't bother me at all. It occupies a grip of space anyway. I also don't understand what the issue with the scanner is apart from seeing claoked mechs. This is probably one of those items that should be limited to certain mechs. I can think of a few items that should be limited to certain mechs. It would go a long way to helping balance and the mechs wouldn't feel so same-y.

[HeraldRedfordIII]

What if it were pings that radiate from the center. Or what if radars got rid of false positives like a jammer for the jammer  or even mark holograms as false

[DerMax]

Some great ideas in this thread. I like FakeName's LoS idea.

[Lioot]

I disagree with everything in this thread

 

Scanner is love

 

Scanner is life

 

But in truth, I do use them and I do think they are over powered, hence why I use them. The sweep idea is excellent, reminds me of sonar in some WWII films with submarines, and it should also only relay the information to the player who used the scanner in the first place too

[PsychedelicGrass]

I have a scanner on all my main mechs because of how useful it is. I can see what's around a corner or find good flanking opportunities during a fight. Some people have been very vocal about their frustrations with it ingame, but whatever; it's an item in the game and I can use it if I want to, although I do agree that they're OP and should be nerfed. 

[dorobo]

So that is why I keep loosing constantly! Fukers knew I was comin!!

[EM1O]

It's all sorta interwoven, not really just the Scanners, per se.

Not to be a thread bust, but, condensed version of 2 years of personal gripes:

Fatten the armor. Extend TTK

Buff the quantitative (reconstruct/repair/replenish/refuel etc) Internals.

Permanently remove all non-weapon or non-incapacitative category Items. Especially Scanners and Orbs.

Remove either the Tech, or the capacity to self-repair. Or both.

Universally enable Friendly-Fire.

Enable Team Killing penalties, either via personnal scoring or TK-Suicide (as i posted elsewhere: kill a teammate, you die too)

New weapon Item: Genocide Bomb, 6 slots, one use. Hit an enemy with it, kill their team. Get killed while carrying it, kill YOUR entire team. No one knows if you have one, unless you tell them.

Restore total kill limit to 50, expiry to 20 minutes on high-population capacity servers. Maybe Siege, too.

Buff all of my mechs to ridiculousness.

 

Did I miss anything?

:D

[CraftyDus]

trash tier item

 

gives players with very little to no game sense, the closest thing to game sense they'll ever experience

 

has no place in a contest of skill

 

no respected player uses them

 

delete item from game

 

[Rainbow_Sheep]

Lawful Evil: Scanners are part of the game. If you don't like it, don't play.

#LOLOLMASTERTROLE2012

#GETREKT

#LRN2SCAN

[EM1O]

^--<< this. lol!

 

most of my G2 Raiders, some infils and reaps have mk3 Scanner

heh.

[BaronSaturday]

I like how elitists come in here and call things “trash tier" or claim that no respectable player uses scanners. It actually just comes off as whiney. It doesn't add to the conversation. It's just needless, ego filled, complaining. It's trumped up opinion at best.

Now, there are two fixes that I can see working best either combined or by themselves.

First, add the sweep or ping effect. Allow to remain able to see through walls.

Second: buff the scrambler with an added effect. If a scarmbler is dropped within the radius of a scanner they cancel eachother out.

THe scanner would block blips and the scrambler would stop blips from sppearing on the enemy raider when the teo interact.