154 replies to this topic

[Hyginos]

 

this 1900 noname wreck you in you gren some time

 

 

You don't own a gren.

 

Or are you partaking in the practice of smurfing you so often decry on this forum?

[DerMax]

You don't own a gren.

 

Or are you partaking in the practice of smurfing you so often decry on this forum?

He wanted to say that he wrecked me while I was playing Gren, which I mained for the Priority Target tourney. I don't remember such an occurrence, but that is probably because I don't pay any attention to my performance in pub games.

[Hyginos]

He wanted to say that he wrecked me while I was playing Gren, which I mained for the Priority Target tourney. I don't remember such an occurrence, but that is probably because I don't pay any attention to my performance in pub games.

 

That makes more sense. I guess I need to be more careful wading through his broken english.

 

On the subject of NA vs EU:

Look at this, and this. Not sure what to make of it entirely, but it appears that EU's population in comparison to NA is not equivalent to its representation on the leaderboard.

[shosca]

That makes more sense. I guess I need to be more careful wading through his broken english.

 

On the subject of NA vs EU:

Look at this, and this. Not sure what to make of it entirely, but it appears that EU's population in comparison to NA is not equivalent to its representation on the leaderboard.

 

[DerMax]

That makes more sense. I guess I need to be more careful wading through his broken english.

 

On the subject of NA vs EU:

Look at this, and this. Not sure what to make of it entirely, but it appears that EU's population in comparison to NA is not equivalent to its representation on the leaderboard.

I don't think this NA vs EU thing matters, really. The funniest part of this comparison is that it completely excludes Japan, which is home to some absolutely insane pilots (think Balweo, ATEM).

 

EU has � and, more importantly, has had � some incredibly talented pilots, most of whom are now inactive. This is also the case for NA with people like Evolwar, BiO and the others. I think the best of the best from EU and NA would have comparable skill levels.

 

Regarding the leaderboards. As has been said, once you pass the mark of 2300 (or something like that), the MMR difference stops meaning much � at least at this point in the game's development. Mine was 2190 last time I checked, and I was part of the Priority Target champion team. So the leaderboards alone don't mean much, I think.

 

One last thing I'd like to mention is that, with all these talks of "Hawken's comparably low skill ceiling," I think this ceiling has yet to be reached, especially when it comes to MA. I have yet to see one pilot who uses the GL (and Rev-GL) bounce to its full potential. I have yet to see one pilot who jumps in his Incin to help his teammates from S1 on S3 on Frontline (yes, Saare shots can go that far and wreck havoc across the map, and the same works for Rev-GL). I have yet to see one pilot who masterfully uses the map to jump around like the parkour people without going out of bounds. It's kinda tiring to read this "low skill ceiling" stuff from people who main the easiest-to-use classes like the Assault or the Zerker.

[zorin1]

Xacius,

I just want to state for the record that you are on great guy.  You have done a lot for Hawken over the years. 

 

I remember the day when you took some time to go a few rounds with my son Cocoa1/NewKnockOut.  He did not beat you but you did tell him that he had good aim.  He still talks about that from time to time.  He strives to be as good of a player as you.  I think for his age he is pretty damn good.

 

I guess in the future you will be making VR games.  :)  I guess us fat people will need to lose weight to be able to play.  I guess all the people that sit around and drink beer will have a hard time playing.  :)

 

Good luck

Matt

I'm a student at the University of Utah studying computer science with an emphasis in entertainment arts & engineering.     I game a fair bit, but my grades are straight A's atm so I'm not neglecting my studies.  I plan to finish up undergrad, get into the U's EAE grad school (both our undergrad and grad EAE programs are highly rated), and start development on a personal project.   5 or 6 years down the road, I want to start developing competitive multiplayer games.  I think I'd be one of the rare devs that's actually top-tier at the game they're working on.  That's the goal, at least.  

 

I've been playing Hawken since 2012 and have MMR-whored for the majority of my time spent playing.  I was the first player to break 2800 MMR and held the top spot until I stopped playing in mid-2014.  I've been active for the past couple of months to finish up the third TPG season.  Starting about a month ago, I stopped playing pubs on my main account.  When you have the highest MMR in the lobby, the matchmaker puts all the shitty players on your team.  Regardless of how good you are, you can't carry 5 shitters against 5 players that are cooperating and working together.  It just doesn't happen, and usually results in a loss of MMR for you, despite you performing equivalently to players on the stronger team.  I only play my main account in competitive matches.  

 

Apart from IareDave, there aren't any other players that can match my Assault gameplay.  Pair that with being dedicated Assault for the best team in the competitive scene, and you have a pretty solid formula for achieving the highest rating in the game.  We win our matches, and I'm almost always in the top 3.  

 

After this season, I'm moving to more challenging games.  The main reason for this is that Hawken's skill ceiling is pitifully low in comparison to Unreal Tournament and similar twitch-shooters.  It's just not fun/challenging anymore, even at top-tier play.  Until then, I may as well farm as much MMR as possible, lmao.  

[Amidatelion]

 I have yet to see one pilot who uses the GL (and Rev-GL) bounce to its full potential. I have yet to see one pilot who jumps in his Incin to help his teammates from S1 on S3 on Frontline (yes, Saare shots can go that far and wreck havoc across the map, and the same works for Rev-GL). I have yet to see one pilot who masterfully uses the map to jump around like the parkour people without going out of bounds. It's kinda tiring to read this "low skill ceiling" stuff from people who main the easiest-to-use classes like the Assault or the Zerker.

 

This might be a fuzzy bunny's point of view, but the issue here is two-fold. The distance that the SAARE and GL shots can go is impressive, but as was quite aptly shown in the now infamous "sand-in-vagina" video, it's pretty useless at those distances. Even with a spotter, as I think you're suggesting, the mechs being targeted just WILL NOT be in the same place and AOE as area denial isn't... that... effective at that distance. The only team that uses an Incin well is Omni and that's when they're running fatasses on Origin to be utter goddamn tryhard dicktrolls (i mean that in the nicest way possible, Nept, I know your policy). The Incin isn't a particularly flexible mech in MA. Area denial is a question of team coordination and comp, not individual pilot skill or mech ability.

 

And while Rev-gren is insanely good and you're absolutely right there are very few people who even come close to using it to its fullest... Vulcan gren is just easier to use and more powerful in the large majority of situations. So there's the issue that yes many people aren't touching that skill ceiling, but they're doing that because there is limited gain in achieving it.

 

Also jumping around trying to parkour in Hawken is asking for a double slug telegram.

[zorin1]

Spr1nterJam,

Just for the record, who do you think are the best European plays are? 

 

play only with high MMR players in comp on your main

stomp novices with low/mid MMR in pubs on your many smurfs

 

such achievement

play like real man on only one account

and show us how much really MMR can you keep this way

not hiding on your many smurfs caring and beeing scared of MMR lose

[Sylhiri]

I have yet to see one pilot who uses the GL (and Rev-GL) bounce to its full potential.

 

It would be much easier if the developers cared more about gameplay then visual appeal. It's like trying to use a laser weapon in a room of funhouse mirrors. I can't name one pilot that has or will take the time to map out all the wonky, invisible collision boxes so that he can use the GL to it's fullest potential and I can't blame them.

[TheButtSatisfier]

Yeah...

It's the omniscient

40oz of malt liquor make Xacius wanna tell ya somethin

 

I say, scootin around

Sittin on scrubs

Can not lie, was high on pubs

Coolin in his haterade

Man he's 3k, he's got it made

Take him to your special place

Close your eyes you'll die anyways

 

Haters wanna hate

Lovers wanna love

Xacius don't even want

None of the above

He gonna fuzzy bunny on you

Yes he do, he'll fuzzy bunny on you

He'll fuzzy bunny on you

 

Pew pew pew

[EliteShooter]

 

EU has � and, more importantly, has had � some incredibly talented pilots, most of whom are now inactive.

 

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.......

Literally the only thing EU players can do is complain about AC.

#gitgud

[Aregon]

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.......

Literally the only thing EU players can do is complain about AC.

#gitgud

Better than saying you don`t give a fudge about every 5-10th post and complaining about how other posts contribute jack sh*t and then defend your own posts by ignoring the question.

Edited by Sir Aregon, 15 October 2015 - 09:12 AM.

[DerMax]

This might be a fuzzy bunny's point of view, but the issue here is two-fold. The distance that the SAARE and GL shots can go is impressive, but as was quite aptly shown in the now infamous "sand-in-vagina" video, it's pretty useless at those distances. Even with a spotter, as I think you're suggesting, the mechs being targeted just WILL NOT be in the same place and AOE as area denial isn't... that... effective at that distance. The only team that uses an Incin well is Omni and that's when they're running fatasses on Origin to be utter goddamn tryhard dicktrolls (i mean that in the nicest way possible, Nept, I know your policy). The Incin isn't a particularly flexible mech in MA. Area denial is a question of team coordination and comp, not individual pilot skill or mech ability.

 

And while Rev-gren is insanely good and you're absolutely right there are very few people who even come close to using it to its fullest... Vulcan gren is just easier to use and more powerful in the large majority of situations. So there's the issue that yes many people aren't touching that skill ceiling, but they're doing that because there is limited gain in achieving it.

I currently main the Rev-GL Gren, and I can tell you that area denial works wonders even across the map. If you are not in a fight, you can singlehandedly make life harder for people 500 meters away out of your LoS. However, you have to know a ton about every single map � the places, the trajectory, the angles, the timings and the distances. For example, with Rev-GL, you can hit someone sitting below and on the bridge on Frontline from S3. Essentially, most the map is accessible from anywhere, but you gotta really know your stuff if you want to be pulling out something like this on a constant basis. The idea here is that you can have zero idle time, being useful at all times, wherever you are. It's quite cool.

 

Honestly, I don't know which one � Rev-GL Gren or Vulcan Gren � has the higher potential in theory, but I agree that the latter has a much, much better ease-of-use-to-dps-output ratio (and the Assault is hands down the top dog here).

 

Also jumping around trying to parkour in Hawken is asking for a double slug telegram.

Depends on the map and how good you are and how good your opponent is. When I mained the Infil, parkouring was not only really fun but also quite effective in that I could approach people from unexpected angles, to then alpha strike them. Good times.

Edited by DerMax, 15 October 2015 - 09:51 AM.

[nepacaka]

To be honest, it is strange when people trying to prove who better, I mean, play 6v6 only prove which team is better, if you kill someone in teamfight it doesn't prove nothing. If you play like a tank, you can lead your team to win, but you never being a MVP like a scout or infil. It doesn't any sense to blame tank that he is not good player, but actually team can't win without he. Just for example.

duel in hawken it is a different story, with different rules, cuz nobody help you kill your enemy, and both players always know where they stay without radar.

what I want to say? instead talking who better, probably will be better increase self skill, or asking "someone" about duel :D

Edited by nepacaka, 15 October 2015 - 10:41 AM.

[Sylhiri]

duel in hawken it is a different story, with different rules, cuz nobody help you kill your enemy, and both players always know where they stay without radar.

 

Tier list.

[1uster]

I currently main the Rev-GL Gren, and I can tell you that area denial works wonders even across the map....

 

Video or it didn't happened.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, seriously I would love to see some examples of the things you are talking about above. Sounds like something "new" to this game. Obviously you are not talking about nade spam at the eye of the needle in Uptown.

[DerMax]

Video or it didn't happened.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, seriously I would love to see some examples of the things you are talking about above. Sounds like something "new" to this game. Obviously you are not talking about nade spam at the eye of the needle in Uptown.

You'll have to ask someone else, because my laptop gives me 35 fps tops even without recording.

[comic_sans]

 

 

Why does this look familiar.  (hint I know why it does but do you, dear reader???)

Edited by cringe_smells, 15 October 2015 - 12:16 PM.

[OdinTheWise]

i hear there is a new armored clown in town?

[Sorroritas]

i hear there is a new armored clown in town?

Hands down, I got to frown

[ticklemyiguana]

 

Depends on the map and how good you are and how good your opponent is. When I mained the Infil, parkouring was not only really fun but also quite effective in that I could approach people from unexpected angles, to then alpha strike them. Good times.

Ugh yes. I play EOC infil pretty much exclusively these days, even in TPG. Either heat cannon or AR would be more effective 95% (eh, maybe like 60% actually - except on bunker, then it's 100%) of the time, but knowing how to get around the map, when to use your ability to parkour right on top of someone that just watched you walk around a corner, and overall using your mobility in unexpected ways to win fights with a seriously DPS challenged mech is not only super satisfying, it's basically the only effective method of playing.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 15 October 2015 - 05:17 PM.

[Xacius]

Xacius: The Donald Trump of Hawken

I paid myself to write it and then masturbated to it.  

 

Gentile or fallen/jack?

 

(used to live in Mesa, have my fair share of acquaintances)

I don't know what any of these terms mean, lol.  

[Nept]

Read through these latest posts a bit back and had a few thoughts:

 

1. Never write LOL, lmao, lmfao, rofl, or anything resembling derisive laughter while responding to a post.  It just makes it look like you're mad.  People who use that "technique" think that they're demonstrating how little they care about someone's opinion, or how ridiculous it is, but all they're managing to convey is, "I'm really mad at you".
2. Xacius - as with every other Omni member who plays non-specialty mechs - would run 2800+ MMR were he pubbing regularly.  He fully recognizes that he (probably) wouldn't've hit 3k+ through pub play.
3. That being said, you can't really criticize someone for playing against only high-level organized teams and players - and for surpassing 3k mmr through that play, no less.

[DerMax]

 

That being said, you can't really criticize someone for playing against only high-level organized teams and players - and for surpassing 3k mmr through that play, no less.

This is not what he's being criticized for.

[Nept]

play only with high MMR players in comp on your main

stomp novices with low/mid MMR in pubs on your many smurfs

 

such achievement

play like real man on only one account

and show us how much really MMR can you keep this way

not hiding on your many smurfs caring and beeing scared of MMR lose

 

re: Dermax

 

Was certainly a big part of it.

 

*Edit*

 

Because I know you're going to argue semantics: you're focusing on the smurfing and beating up on newbies thing.  However, the main thrust of "sprinter's" criticism isn't that Xacius is playing against lowbies on a smurf, but that his MMR wouldn't reach such high values were he pubbing regularly sans smurf.  Firstly, Xacius readily acknowledges that point.  Secondly, Xacius had 2900+ MMR while pubbing.  And thirdly, the aspersions contained within sprinter's "argument" target Xacius' skill level and "e-bravery" - or lack thereof.  Which, again, isn't really something you can call someone out for when they've hit 3k+ MMR during competitive play.

Edited by Nept: Ultra Lord of the God-Kings, 16 October 2015 - 12:46 AM.

[SS396]

Read through these latest posts a bit back and had a few thoughts:

• Never write LOL, lmao, lmfao, rofl, or anything resembling derisive laughter while responding to a post.  It just makes it look like you're mad.  People who use that "technique" think that they're demonstrating how little they care about someone's opinion, or how ridiculous it is, but all they're managing to convey is, "I'm really mad at you".
• Xacius - as with every other Omni member who plays non-specialty mechs - would run 2800+ MMR were he pubbing regularly.  He fully recognizes that he (probably) wouldn't've hit 3k+ through pub play.
• That being said, you can't really criticize someone for playing against only high-level organized teams and players - and for surpassing 3k mmr through that play, no less.

 
lol. And I really mean it, when I read your post tonight I laughed out loud and facepalmed shortly thereafter.
 
Whenever I read someones post that says lol or any of the terms you mention, never have I ever remotely thought someone was trying to communicate a feeling of anger.  For you to even conclude that all they are conveying is anger is the stupidest thing I have ever seen you post.  You can ask any person from 3rd grade up what lol means, and they will easily explain it as an expression of amusement. (or maybe mistake it as a MOBA if you don't give them any context)
 
The only definition of mad in your laughable excuse of a conclusion that could possibly be confused or mistaken is mentally ill or insane and even then laughing manically at someone can be another reason a person would use lol in a post.
 
Like this:

Spoiler

 
But never will it ever convey anger.   Smarminess yes, anger no.
 
 
Now to address point 3, the issue isn't that at all.  The issue is he chooses NOT to use his precious high MMR account to play in normal lobbies because he doesn't want "to always be stuck with the worst teammates" and to "lose" or experience his MMR deflating because of it.  
 
He said it himself earlier, did you not read it?
 

Starting about a month ago, I stopped playing pubs on my main account.  When you have the highest MMR in the lobby, the matchmaker puts all the shitty players on your team.  Regardless of how good you are, you can't carry 5 shitters against 5 players that are cooperating and working together.  It just doesn't happen, and usually results in a loss of MMR for you, despite you performing equivalently to players on the stronger team.  I only play my main account in competitive matches.

 
That alone conveys his choice of protecting his MMR because he doesn't want it to ever deflate, he doesn't want to be #2 or #3 anymore.  In the TPG matches he chooses to use it on he never gets a chance for it to deflate because of how your clan is heavily stacked and never loses.  He is simply manipulating the circumstances, because he already knows the outcome.

 
 

Until then, I may as well farm as much MMR as possible, lmao.

 
Hrmm, I guess he means he's angry there..   eh?  What do you think??  Condescending prick yes, angry no.
 
  
He still plays Hawken using other accounts to protect his self appointed master achievement though.
 
Here is proof recorded as recently as the 3rd of Oct:
http://www.twitch.tv...cius/v/18853248
 
What Reloaded needs is to implement compounded decay on MMR so that people can't farm it up and never use it.  They should be forced to maintain it.
 
So again, its more about exploiting the situation in order to boost his own MMR rather than earning it legitimately.  This is really the case with the majority of users that play on an accounts in any TPG scrim, or match.

[comic_sans]

Wowzer, it's like there's a fire sale on shovels to dig yourselves into a hole with!  Guys, WTF?

[Amidatelion]

This is a picture of a cat wearing a baseball cap like a cape.

 

[Hyginos]

Wowzer, it's like there's a fire sale on shovels to dig yourselves into a hole with!  Guys, WTF?

 

They were really cheap! I think you're jealous that you didn't get one.

 

 

 

 
So again, its more about exploiting the situation in order to boost his own MMR rather than earning it legitimately.  This is really the case with the majority of users that play on an accounts in any TPG scrim, or match.

 

Two things:

1. 50% of participants in any TPG scrim/match lose MMR (though often 3v3/4v4 drills are actually force-restarted to save time, which supposedly nixes all MMR movement). I've lost MMR in almost every scrim I've played for months.
2. More on topic, the idea behind breaking 3000 MMR is actually academic. For a long time it was believed that MMR was capped at 3k, so getting a player to that point gives us (arguably useless, but that's not the point) information on how the algorithm behaves. It's like running a particle accelerator at increasingly high energies to see what happens.

On the subject of MMR decay, IIRC there is already an uncertainty rating attached to MMR that will impact how much MMR you move. I believe part of that number's purpose is to take time since last played into account. Players will also drop of Shadenes' leaderboard after a few weeks of inactivity.

[Nept]

Re: SS

 

Most of your gripes are covered in my reply to Dermax.  The only one that wasn't (the mad thing) is exemplified nicely by your emotional essay of a post.

[SS396]

Two things:

• 
  
• 50% of participants in any TPG scrim/match lose MMR (though often 3v3/4v4 drills are actually force-restarted to save time, which supposedly nixes all MMR movement). I've lost MMR in almost every scrim I've played for months.
• More on topic, the idea behind breaking 3000 MMR is actually academic. For a long time it was believed that MMR was capped at 3k, so getting a player to that point gives us (arguably useless, but that's not the point) information on how the algorithm behaves. It's like running a particle accelerator at increasingly high energies to see what happens.

On the subject of MMR decay, IIRC there is already an uncertainty rating attached to MMR that will impact how much MMR you move. I believe part of that number's purpose is to take time since last played into account. Players will also drop of Shadenes' leaderboard after a few weeks of inactivity.

 

Thats why I used the term majority.  Its a common feeling that most people involved in any TPG match have an elevated MMR above what they should normally have.  I am just regurgitating those said feelings I've heard people mention in talks.  Actual results may vary.

 

I don't think it breaking 3000 gives you any insight on how the algorithm works at all.  All it does it tell you its not limited to 3000 as previously thought by people not in the know.  Shrug.  Don't compare it to something where you can actually observe a result, because its nothing like that.

 

I'm not talking about an uncertainty rating, I'm talking about "use it or lose it".  So unless maintained one persons MMR couldn't just stagnate at the same elevated level by not playing the game.  Because see, all its going to take for Xacius to maintain his #1 position is to be "active" which he can easily do by entering a co op matchs that shouldn't effect his MMR at all.  See, just another way to exploit the system.

[SS396]

Re: SS

 

Most of your gripes are covered in my reply to Dermax.  The only one that wasn't (the mad thing) is exemplified nicely by your emotional essay of a post.

 

You sure do have problems determining emotions of people.  You have no clue.

[Hyginos]

All it does it tell you its not limited to 3000 as previously thought by people not in the know. 

 

That's all we wanted to know.

[kvazarsky]

What Reloaded needs is to implement compounded decay on MMR so that people can't farm it up and never use it.  They should be forced to maintain it.

 

This is very good idea. It could help clean out rankings from inactive players.

[SS396]

 

This is very good idea. It could help clean out rankings from inactive players.

 

Shrug, its a double edged sword.  While it does help in that specific circumstance, it also has a similar result of smurfing.  It would allow a player to just not play the game for a specific time to lower their MMR to a level that doesn't reflect their actual skill.

 

I guess thats the biggest issue I have with MMR, it doesn't accurately reflect ones skill, only the progress of repeatedly topping the scoreboard every match.  Start looking at actual accuracy stats instead of maintaining killstreaks and avoiding dying to boost points.

[PoopSlinger]

Shrug, its a double edged sword.  While it does help in that specific circumstance, it also has a similar result of smurfing.  It would allow a player to just not play the game for a specific time to lower their MMR to a level that doesn't reflect their actual skill.

 

I guess thats the biggest issue I have with MMR, it doesn't accurately reflect ones skill, only the progress of repeatedly topping the scoreboard every match.  Start looking at actual accuracy stats instead of maintaining killstreaks and avoiding dying to boost points.

Topping a scoreboard, maintaining killstreaks and avoiding dying are all good representations of skill.

[Pleasure_Mortar]

To respond to all this bickering about not playing publich matches, I wish I were that good and had the connections to play exclusively in organised teams against organised team. Unfortunately for me I'm not willing to invest the time necessary.

 

 

@Nept: I made the same obersavtion a while ago. While I think there are certain rare circumstances, where lol is used as intended, the rest is, especially if you look at the meaning behind the abbreviations, just out of context and most likely related to sarcasm, rage, insecurity, scornfulness etc.

IMO most people (mis)using those don't even have a clue what message they are really sending.

[Hyginos]

I guess thats the biggest issue I have with MMR, it doesn't accurately reflect ones skill, only the progress of repeatedly topping the scoreboard every match.

 

Does repeatedly topping the scoreboard not indicate a skilled (or technician) player? I suppose you could go by win/loss or accuracy if you want but those numbers are as (if not more) simple to game as raw score.

[thedark20]

Welp, i would not be top player in Hawken by skill. But at least i'm top player on having fun in there, even more on UVW Events






So sad

 

Edited by thedark20, 16 October 2015 - 07:40 AM.

[TURDxSANDWICH]

 

I guess thats the biggest issue I have with MMR, it doesn't accurately reflect ones skill, only the progress of repeatedly topping the scoreboard every match.  Start looking at actual accuracy stats instead of maintaining killstreaks and avoiding dying to boost points.

 

The problem with MMR isn't that it doesn't accurately reflect ones skill.  Its a "Match Making Ranking" and it serves its purpose well enough (and would serve it even better with a bigger player base).  The problem with MMR is that people interpret it as is if does accurately reflect ones skill.