118 replies to this topic

[Sorroritas]

Thanks for the update.

 

I got only 2 questions:

Will there be test drives available on the pc when the pc version gets updated?

Will "Marvin the winter yeti" make a debut?

 

Thanks.

Sorro

[Chickin]

>didn't fix map out-of-bounds pathways
 

 

Why do YOU even complain about this one :).

[DerMax]

Why do YOU even complain about this one :).

One of the devs asked me to compile a list of these. I answered rather bluntly.

[dorobo]

Since last times I understand one simple thing. Reloaded are not the same with adhesive or meteor. Original hawken devs will be a "developers" team. They can coding new things, and making models. Reloaded can make a "mod" based on current hawken engine, like changes some numbers in table, and copy part of code. It's mean, they can rebalance it, moving weapons and make mechs based on "presets", but they can't develop it. I.e. They can't fix exploits, they can't change game mechanic alot, they can't making many other things, only tune it. So...we probably never see fixes of problems in your list. This is sad, and we only can "deal with it".

Even if reloaded know how to turn hawken in a "super best game in the world", they just simply can't make it. Even if they agree with community suggestions.

Edited by dorobo, 11 July 2016 - 11:45 PM.

[Boospengi]

don't let your nightmares be nightmares

because mine are coming true

 

 

But seriously, if the lack of customization isn't addressed and PC is updated to match consoles in their current state I think I'll have to drop Hawken as a whole. Losing the ability to have your individual loadout means every mech is locked into a singular playstyle and role, and it really seems like it's not doing anything to solve "imbalance" which came more as a result of a decaying playerbase than any sort of progression blocks, which now coincidentally exist in the form of G2's that enforce a long grind and only playing the same mech with the same primary, items and internals, and potentially crippling your team as you try to grind exp.

 

And to see mechs I've used for my whole career be changed in an irreversible way is just disappointing and sad. I won't be able to put air compressors on a battleturkey, or stack speed internals on my scout, no matter how impractical, or just have fun with making my mech different in general. And it especially hurts for mechs like the Scout and Infiltrator which became completely different beasts depending on their primaries, and welcomed players of any skill level to use the same mech without the same experience. Now the Scout will always require significant leading skills to succeed, and the Infiltrator can't exist both as a DPS and flanker especially if the user has trouble with its only primary. Even if new mechs like the Charge will try to fill the void those mechs have left behind, their abilities aren't carried over, their secondaries are different, and items and internals remain locked.

 

The main reason I'm not motivated to play anymore is the changing of the Scout. Even if it is petty to give up on a game because of a single aspect, the Scout was that single aspect of the game that made me love it and spend so much time playing it, and that surely applies to many other people who once played this game, albeit with different mechs. If customization remains absent I'll never be able to have that experience again. I won't be able to outsmart and win against pursuers by using corners and hiding my position anymore, or zip across the map to take out stragglers and priority targets because now my mech's role has been locked into fighting mid-range, rather than being able to choose to fight at mid-range or assault the unaware in close quarters. I can't choose to have air mobility to make myself even harder to chase and hit, or opt instead for rapid auto-repair on my mech when I'm pursued too long, or auto-repairing when I quickly take out all the enemy team's stragglers and wounded.

 

I have to play the mech I loved the way the developers think I should, and it's not the way I want.

[Chickin]

One of the devs asked me to compile a list of these. I answered rather bluntly.

 

But if they fix them, what's left to do in Howken?

[DerMax]

But if they fix them, what's left to do in Howken?

Without kompotka, there is no Howken.

[Kindos7]

the concept of NDAs and the complete and very likely re-balancing of the changes they made that they very well may have had zero say in because the console companies have them by the balls. They can't make anything or say anything unless they give the okay.

 

...

 

They make the rules here, and what they say goes. 

 

So they're in charge, or they're not?

[Guns_N_Rozer]

Not sure why it took so long to confirm they are still under an NDA...

I blame the game programmer ,may be he is too lazy and don't want to work so hard like creating something ,so he/she shows the simple way to the Dev's team which is easy for him ,you know   who knows 

[MomOw]

I think that their main issues are to add options so that PS4 players can remap the control and further optimize the graphics on consoles.

 

I don't know how it is really but I've also seen critics about the "too long" grind to get the G2. IMHO the vertical progression "Pay to compete" is pretty bad, and G2 should have been further specific version of G1.

Example : a G2 raider with slightly less health, slightly more speed and T32

[Chickin]

Without kompotka, there is no Howken.

[nepacaka]

We have access to everything - code, game, database, etc - and can modify just about anything. The problem is (was?) the content pipeline that Hawken had prior was not a sustainable pipeline and a lot of work was put into making a framework that is functional and practical so we can provide regular content updates.

Regarding the quoted list - We have discussed issues like these internally (Nief, Orblording, etc) and when we find the perfect way to deal with the issues, we will inform the community of our plans to do so. This is all while tackling more pressing issues that actually require more time investment for long-term results, such as client/server performance (framerate in particular) and bugfixes.

Ok. I believe you. I always being optimistic about hawken future (even if I'm whining everytime). And actually doesn't matter devs can or can't fix all of this. I'm just deal with it. RLD keep hawken alive and it is good thing.

I find console-hawken concept is mostly good, and don't care how you do it (I mean, you delete items/weapon customization to give mech a "role", it is OK, it have many positive moments and give developers a time for work, devs can working on engine/ps4/Xbox, at the same time can easily can making some new mech without put effort into design just using already exist bodyparts and ripped weapons. It is probably a very clever move, and I'm not blame RLD in it. (I mean, from "business" point of view)

All of I want, that RLD do something with mech balance, and not continue previously devs mistakes. For example - Nief.
You may see many topics about rocketeer before, and can see problems of mech like this (easily to kill noobs, useless at high-rate), and problems which rocketeer stacking cause on map like bunker, or losteco-siege in pub games.
Ok, you fix (trying to fix) it in console-hawken, increase rocketeer speed, and highly decrease his HP, to make him more like "support" role. I feel it can be more good now, even if enemy team stacking rocketeer now, they sucking by HP. It is OK.
At the same time, when you know about rocketeers problem, and how noobs whining about seeker/hf guidance, you introduce...Nief. With dual seekers. It is just lol.
You guys fix one old problem, but added absolutely identical problem in game, instead trying to avoid creating mechs which cause problems or tonnes of whining :)
(you know RLD, rocketeer always been a "hot discussed" many times since 2012, because have strange balance, different for low/high tier and guidance)
Where is the logic? You just ignore problem which people discussed for years at this forum. I'm serious. Early people always hot talking about it. (now it less, because all noobs left, and veterans just don't care, and mostly discuss about "ha?ken iz ded", "ha?ken iz ded again" and other useless fuzzy bunny)

Sorry for my eng, don't use translator, but I hope you understand me correct.

Edited by nepacaka, 12 July 2016 - 03:16 AM.

[nepacaka]

PC forum people still believing that their 100 voices (including mine) really matter.

Priceless.

Yes, we are "100 people". But, many of those people are "sciri gud" players. And what is better, listen 100 people who actually good in this game, and understand many things in gameplay, mechanics, what good and what is broken.
Or listen 5000 noobs who don't understand nothing?

When you trying to fix broken PC, what better, listen a one IT-specialist, or listen advices from hundred gardeners who never see a PC?

Yes, devs shouldn't listen players about game business-model. We don't know how to get money, and how better do this to lead game to more shiny future. But they can listen players from balance pov, or game exploits, bugs, etc.

Edited by nepacaka, 12 July 2016 - 03:35 AM.

[dorobo]

if your game is real good cosmetics is enough. Sure Reloaded want their investment back but if you concentrate on the money the game will suffer. Business advice by robo 

[harmless_kittens]

What's priceless is how you went from relatable skrub to anti-smurf Margaret Thatcher in the span of a few bad threads

I'm sorry guys.  That was wildly insensitive, bitter, and sarcastic of me.  I have not been "myself" as of late.  The last week IRL has been really trying, culminating in yesterday.  Last Wed my boss of 10 years was let go.  Then yesterday our team leader got back from vacation, found out what happened, and promptly quit.  Also yesterday we found out that our checking account was hacked and they took $348 out of our account, so we're working with the credit union on that.  None of this is an excuse for my bad behavior of late, but all of this, combined with various health problems at home, have been taking their toll on the family.

 

Not trying to derail the thread at all, but I did want to offer my apologies.  I know we haven't seen eye to eye recently, but I really do appreciate the good advice you all have provided since I joined.  I'm just so saddened that this is the direction Reloaded is taking this game to.  I'll drop out of the forums too if you'd like, but I'd rather hang around.  So if I could please have my "relatable skrub" name-tag back I'd appreciate it :)  Cheers.

Edited by harmless_kittens, 12 July 2016 - 05:29 AM.

[MomOw]

Since pple are talking about balance, as far as I can see there are still nothing for :

- EOC uncharged

- hellfire "dumbfire"

- Reaper ability

- usefulness of turret modes (beside vanguard in niche cases)

[nepacaka]

- EOC uncharged
)

Well, devs now can buff it in future, and make as a "executioner weapon", cuz it is only infiltrator weapon and role. (but I'm not sure if this thing in Civ corpus with x2 EOC is real :D)

[ARCH3TYP3]

Thanks so much for the hard work and the information.

We�ve heard the comments and suggestions, so rest assured none of that is being ignored. In fact, keep it coming � there have been some excellent analyses of the pros and cons of a wide range of design possibilities, and we actually do take those seriously. Again, nothing is dismissed out of hand ;)

1. Restore Assault to its former state, with Tow and SMC AND 565 armor..perhaps as a direct "upgrade" to CRT recruit.

2. Restore item, internal, weapon and cosmetic customizations.

3. Give Grenade launcher back to Grenadier.

4. Address sticky spots and uneven ground on all maps. (We all know where they are).

5. Provide desirable cosmetics for purchase...VERY desirable cosmetics. It is not uncommon for people on certain other games to spend $10 on a hat, if it's cool enough!..and the game I speak of came out in 2007 and has 70,000 peak players a day, according to Steam.

6. Keep the communication coming! Consider the insight of longtime players.

7. Treat Hawken with love; Make Hawken great.

[DisorderlyMechanic]

They missed the part where the reaper is keeping it's slug... right guys? right?

 

*Audibly drowns in own tears*

[brackets]

Since pple are talking about balance, as far as I can see there are still nothing for :

- Reaper ability

The silliest part about this is that they gave the Reaper a Replenisher. Yep - the internal that recharges your ability faster.. on the Reaper. I guess on the bright side they got rid of the slug rifle, and the ability's at least moderately useful with the am-sar. Never mind. Not a bright side 

[Anichkov3]

Ok. I believe you. I always being optimistic about hawken future (even if I'm whining everytime). And actually doesn't matter devs can or can't fix all of this. I'm just deal with it. RLD keep hawken alive and it is good thing.

I find console-hawken concept is mostly good, and don't care how you do it (I mean, you delete items/weapon customization to give mech a "role", it is OK, it have many positive moments and give developers a time for work, devs can working on engine/ps4/Xbox, at the same time can easily can making some new mech without put effort into design just using already exist bodyparts and ripped weapons. It is probably a very clever move, and I'm not blame RLD in it. (I mean, from "business" point of view)

All of I want, that RLD do something with mech balance, and not continue previously devs mistakes. For example - Nief.
You may see many topics about rocketeer before, and can see problems of mech like this (easily to kill noobs, useless at high-rate), and problems which rocketeer stacking cause on map like bunker, or losteco-siege in pub games.
Ok, you fix (trying to fix) it in console-hawken, increase rocketeer speed, and highly decrease his HP, to make him more like "support" role. I feel it can be more good now, even if enemy team stacking rocketeer now, they sucking by HP. It is OK.
At the same time, when you know about rocketeers problem, and how noobs whining about seeker/hf guidance, you introduce...Nief. With dual seekers. It is just lol.
You guys fix one old problem, but added absolutely identical problem in game, instead trying to avoid creating mechs which cause problems or tonnes of whining :)
(you know RLD, rocketeer always been a "hot discussed" many times since 2012, because have strange balance, different for low/high tier and guidance)
Where is the logic? You just ignore problem which people discussed for years at this forum. I'm serious. Early people always hot talking about it. (now it less, because all noobs left, and veterans just don't care, and mostly discuss about "ha?ken iz ded", "ha?ken iz ded again" and other useless fuzzy bunny)

Sorry for my eng, don't use translator, but I hope you understand me correct.

 

I do not understand what people want to do with a homing weapon. No one wants to balance these weapons.You want to remove it from the game of Battle mechs? It is illogical to remove from the game is a beautiful, and most importantly - a natural battle weapon. All the talk about such weapons (self-guided) as of something terrible. Can it be so much afraid of his irresistible power? Once again, I remind you of the presence of lasers in the game - an instant hit with the weapon at the enemy - hitscan. Ever wondered hypocrisy players: who think that getting a laser beam from a sniper rifle on the opposite end of the card is normal. But get a pack of missiles had flown for a few seconds at the opposite end of the map - is evil incarnate.

 

Probably very few people understand to what step you are pushing developers .... After all this talk about what 6 same mechs on which the map is always dominated by only mean one thing ... 

 

Everybody noticed that the developers have tried to strictly divide the mechs in different "roles"? This was done in order to annoy ramshackle veterans? In my opinion: do it to each mech could find its place on the battlefield of any map game. And for easy balance adjustment of course.

 

So what you push developers? On the restriction in the choice of mechs in the match. It will not be repeated in the team of mechs - the best solution to the issue of balance. By the way - to complete the picture, you will need to remove the change mechs during a match. How to implement? Option 1 robot to search the start of the match? Selecting a robot in the lobby? 

 

Because then the balance can be perfectly adjust. True? After all you want it?

[Flifang]

So they're in charge, or they're not?

Gr8 B8 M8 I R8 8/8.

 

They are in control of these forums. The forums as far as I'm aware don't have to go through test builds from a partnered company before they can be used or edited.

 

The people at Microsoft and Sony were likely very harsh on the first pre-release builds. Now that they have the game build out, all they have to do as I understand it is make patch builds and those are likely completely controlled by reloaded as far as changes. A big company like Microsoft or Sony probably wants big games like ones revealed at E3 to be acceptable, especially when there is going to be a playable build at E3.

 

Tiggs has already stated that customization is being brought back, they just got caught up in trying to get the console builds up and running and weren't able to make it happen. So, we WILL get our item and internal choices back, but probably not right away.

 

Also, I've mentioned once or twice that to keep the legacy mechs on PC, the garage feature is required to make that happen because the Xbox and PS UI doesn't allow for multiples of mechs. By the use of some serious mental gymnastics, I was able to deduce that we will likely keep the current UI for PC because it works and fits the PC very well.

 

I hate to tell you sir and/or madam that this argument is over. I'm not going to debate tiny little semantics about my posts because you can't think up another sarcastic jab at my intelligence.  

[_incitatus]

Thanks for the update, please keep them coming.

[Kindos7]

I'm not going to debate tiny little semantics about my posts because you can't think up another sarcastic jab at my intelligence.

 
Whoever is in control of the game's development is not exactly what I would call "tiny little semantics". Not sure what kind of serious mental gymnastics does one perform to reach that conclusion.
 
 

Also, I've mentioned once or twice that to keep the legacy mechs on PC, the garage feature is required to make that happen because the Xbox and PS UI doesn't allow for multiples of mechs. By the use of some serious mental gymnastics, I was able to deduce that we will likely keep the current UI for PC because it works and fits the PC very well.

I don't think those serious mental gymnastics are working well, might want to go back to the superior reading comprehension.
 

Are you going to change the current UI for the one being used on the consoles?
Yes, however, it will be getting a Mouse + Keyboard version of it. The UI created was made with cross-platform support in mind. This means that we had to ensure the UI would run on PC as well as it did on consoles, and with all the same functionality.

The people at Microsoft and Sony were likely very harsh on the first pre-release builds. Now that they have the game build out, all they have to do as I understand it is make patch builds and those are likely completely controlled by reloaded as far as changes. A big company like Microsoft or Sony probably wants big games like ones revealed at E3 to be acceptable, especially when there is going to be a playable build at E3.
Tiggs has already stated that customization is being brought back, they just got caught up in trying to get the console builds up and running and weren't able to make it happen. So, we WILL get our item and internal choices back, but probably not right away.

[Flifang]

I had not seen that post from Tiggs. I will grant you that. As for the rest of my points I hold to them

[nepacaka]

No one wants to balance these weapons.You want to remove it from the game of Battle mechs?

No I don't want remove it from game. This mech can't be buying by HC, so, just let Nief as consoles exclusive mech. And this move help easily avoid any problems in PC patch (in future) like we have with rockee, before ADH change it and nerfed into oblivion. I think rocketeer and incin stories was enough to learn "how you shouldn't creating a mech" lesson.
Btw, the same story was with g2-salt, when it comes with very good dps, but being nerfing into hmm... not very powerful mech at all. This is how it working if you broken solid game rules.
Probably, if devs trying to nerf Nief, this lead only to one way:
- Nief will be a ugly mech in high tier
- Nief still will be shred nubs in 2-3 seconds.
Did we really need mech like this? Which no one needed, but only cause alot of problems and whining at low tier?
And at the same time, you can buy it only for $, so it cause even more whining about p2w, when Nief shred some nubs in low-tier lobby, and player start think, that this mech deal alot of damage just because someone buy it for money and got insane dps+guidance.

The same story like smart pistol in TF, and absolutely don't matter, it is OP, or not. Just exists this thing is enough to whine or making some negative reaction about "why this thing buying for money is rili strong?", or creating some topics on forum like "what the f is this?" or "it is imba! Nerf!!1"

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but it is look like RLD stop sold it on xbox, because nief packet is now 404. (I'm not sure, maybe I just can't find it, or Xbox use special sale page which not allowed if you use PC)

[Darktim300]

I don't really feel they are an issue. They piss some players off yes, but they are easy enough to dodge and their damage per second can be outdone without too much effort. 

 

Though, this is from my point of view and my damage output. Newer players might** have problems duplicating this.

 

** https://www.youtube....0&v=3oQTKIC-EJo

 

Said mech destroying the new little guys.

Edited by Darktim300, 13 July 2016 - 02:43 PM.

[CounterlogicMan]

Since pple are talking about balance, as far as I can see there are still nothing for :

- EOC uncharged

- hellfire "dumbfire"

- Reaper ability

- usefulness of turret modes (beside vanguard in niche cases)

 

All of which are actually good on console. For pc it all still needs rebalanced though.

[surgat]

they only promised, we been taken for a ride for more than a year, at the end there's no development or change!

 

 

google translate

Edited by surgat, 12 July 2016 - 04:49 PM.

[deidarall]

Since pple are talking about balance, as far as I can see there are still nothing for :

- EOC uncharged

- hellfire "dumbfire"

- Reaper ability

- usefulness of turret modes (beside vanguard in niche cases)

Besides vanguard in NICHE cases? Are you kidding me, good in all cases more like.

 

In all seriousness VG turret mode is good. 

[Darktim300]

Besides vanguard in NICHE cases? Are you kidding me, good in all cases more like.

 

In all seriousness VG turret mode is good. 

WillyW supports this statement. 

[DieselCat]

 

I apologize for some of the people on the forums who have a complete inability to read between the lines. It's a shame they will just continue to hate you because their reading comprehension is so below average. 

 

I don't need you speaking for me...and certainly don't care for your insulting comments towards myself and other members of this community that share an opinion that may be different than your's with your blatant sucking up. 

[Xacius]

I apologize for some of the people on the forums who have a complete inability to read between the lines. It's a shame they will just continue to hate you because their reading comprehension is so below average. 

50 shades of brown, starring: your nose.  

Edited by Xacius, 12 July 2016 - 10:17 PM.

[crockrocket]

WillyW supports this statement.

WillyW is also responsible for half of my crushing kills in the past year

[dorobo]

All this fuss starting to get really 

[nepacaka]

**

Said mech destroying the new little guys.

Just put party of 2-3 at bunker :P

[americanbrit14]

 https://www.youtube....0&v=3oQTKIC-EJo

 

Said mech destroying the new little guys.

ya know i noticed that the sound effects don't change when the ability is active, and yes, i know, out of all the things wrong with the neif that is one of the smaller ones but still

[GGGanjaMan]

I don't really feel they are an issue. They piss some players off yes, but they are easy enough to dodge and their damage per second can be outdone without too much effort. 

 

Though, this is from my point of view and my damage output. Newer player might** have problems duplicating this.

 

** https://www.youtube....0&v=3oQTKIC-EJo

 

Said mech destroying the new little guys.

And is that a pay-to-play-only mech? Have they not learnt anything from the cries of the thousands that have quit hawken because it felt too P2W or grindy, even before all this? If they're now going to be introducing pay-to-play mechs, I wonder how many more people it will chase away in the future.

 

But yea on PC, that thing would still get shrekt all the time (basically the same hp as the scoot).

[MomOw]

All of which are actually good on console. For pc it all still needs rebalanced though.

 

Tell me more plox! we can't see console feedback...

Edited by MomOw, 13 July 2016 - 03:16 AM.

[Chickin]

NIEF has Priority Target 1 ability icon.

Very nice.