118 replies to this topic

[nepacaka]

NIEF has Priority Target 1 ability icon.
Very nice.

You can finally got it... But not on forum... :3

[nepacaka]

Tell me more plox! we can't see console feedback...

Probably, devs divided consoles to have objective feedback from console player. I mean, if player don't know that PC version have a 3 weapons choice, and changable internals, he can think about hawken like a original game, and not compare it with current version. It's like a forgot all and starting new life.
I want to believe in this my own theory, because if not, I have no idea why they separated us :P

[LaurenEmily]

NIEF has Priority Target 1 ability icon.
Very nice.

Lmao. Target acquired

[harmless_kittens]

Just put party of 2-3 at bunker :P

 

OK, I find that video disturbing (for us scrubs and noobs).  If they put this in the hands of 2500 MMR PC veterans (who are willing to pay for it) in a few weeks? Scary. 

[nepacaka]

OK, I find that video disturbing (for us scrubs and noobs). If they put this in the hands of 2500 MMR PC veterans (who are willing to pay for it) in a few weeks? Scary.

Probably, this thing (Nif) can be less effective against high-tier players (I'm not sure if I understand u message correct), even on bunker. It is a question, who beat each other, team full of Nif, or team full of "sciri gud" SS or raiders? xD
Actually, I don't care. I just think that this is another mech like G2 assault which shred nubs and not very good cuz don't have secondary, just no need in this games. In first - Nif is a problem for nubs, who play in this game and then say: "I don't want to play in this p2w fuzzy bunny". It is not problem for "veterans". :3
Imho.

Edited by nepacaka, 13 July 2016 - 06:27 AM.

[harmless_kittens]

Oh I know its not a problem for Veterans.  That's my concern,  that its another way (unintended I'm sure) to drive away the newer and weaker players :(

[hestoned]

I'm sorry guys.  That was wildly insensitive, bitter, and sarcastic of me.  I have not been "myself" as of late.  The last week IRL has been really trying, culminating in yesterday.  Last Wed my boss of 10 years was let go.  Then yesterday our team leader got back from vacation, found out what happened, and promptly quit.  Also yesterday we found out that our checking account was hacked and they took $348 out of our account, so we're working with the credit union on that.  None of this is an excuse for my bad behavior of late, but all of this, combined with various health problems at home, have been taking their toll on the family.

 

Not trying to derail the thread at all, but I did want to offer my apologies.  I know we haven't seen eye to eye recently, but I really do appreciate the good advice you all have provided since I joined.  I'm just so saddened that this is the direction Reloaded is taking this game to.  I'll drop out of the forums too if you'd like, but I'd rather hang around.  So if I could please have my "relatable skrub" name-tag back I'd appreciate it :)  Cheers.

 

lol for what its worth i never thought you were over reacting to anything or being grumpy in anyway. peeps be over reacting yo.

i still love having you on my team in scuba dub dub servers

[StubbornPuppet]

Probably, devs divided consoles to have objective feedback from console player. I mean, if player don't know that PC version have a 3 weapons choice, and changable internals, he can think about hawken like a original game, and not compare it with current version. It's like a forgot all and starting new life.
I want to believe in this my own theory, because if not, I have no idea why they separated us :P

 

I would be likely to agree with you... but console players can still create accounts and log on to the PC forums.  It is the PC players that are specifically not allowed to post in OR EVEN VIEW the console topics.

 

Yeah, yeah, this is the result of the way the forum registration is configured... but that IS the end result.

Edited by StubbornPuppet, 15 July 2016 - 08:43 PM.

[War_MachineXL]

Nief is a huge problem on PS4 were not all PC vets. Sure 1 per team is not a problem but were constantly seeing 2-4 per team. Matches quickly empty when Niefs pop up. So much so that the team balance message is always popping up. Even when there's none at first if they start losing they switch over to Niefs and actually pull ahead by a large amount.

All of the Nief problems is further compacted by the mech tree. We have to fight through the Niefs with inferior mechs because all the good ones are locked away behind weaker mechs we probably want nothing to do with.

[DallasCreeper]

We gotta organize a Bunker Siege with Nief VS Rocketeer.

[nepacaka]

Nief is a huge problem on PS4 were not all PC vets. Sure 1 per team is not a problem but were constantly seeing 2-4 per team. Matches quickly empty when Niefs pop up. So much so that the team balance message is always popping up. Even when there's none at first if they start losing they switch over to Niefs and actually pull ahead by a large amount.

All of the Nief problems is further compacted by the mech tree. We have to fight through the Niefs with inferior mechs because all the good ones are locked away behind weaker mechs we probably want nothing to do with.

Well, actually standart TV with AR (or G2-TV) now is very close to current pc assault, u know, it is one of the better mech in game (if it not best, it is veeery good), and I'm 100% sure, it is still very effective at consoles too, if you do it right.

Also, his ability is just hilarious, it increase fire rate probably to ~40%, at the same time all other mech mostly have about 10%-15%, like gren, bers, or SS (and SS actually can make only one shot while ability due to reload weapons)

The solution is very easy. Decrease ability to normal 10%, decrease seeker-xt dps at cost of guidance. But better way for devs when they came to PC think about balance a little and just don't implement Nif. Admit their mistake and not making the same mistakes twice. ez.

Edited by nepacaka, 13 July 2016 - 12:45 PM.

[Dedhed]

Still looking forward to the new PC version of Hawken, cause I aint gots no console. Watched a stream and the in-match gameplay seems pretty similar other than items/internals and fire rates. Thanks for the update, will be glad to play the new build when it gets here.

[TheButtSatisfier]

Also, his ability is just hilarious, it increase fire rate probably to ~40%, at the same time all other mech mostly have about 10%-15%, like gren, bers, or SS (and SS actually can make only one shot while ability due to reload weapons)

 

I remember watching the first .gif of a Nief in action and counted the number of double-shots it made once it used it's three-second duration ability. I remember seeing nine double-shots (a.k.a. 18 seekers shot) during that period, which calculates out to a 100% increase in RoF while the ability is engaged.

 

Put another way, for 3 seconds a Nief increases its DPS by 100%. If each SeekerXT does 65 DPS, then that means normally a Nief does 130 DPS, and when it's ability is engaged it does 260 DPS for 3 seconds. That's 780 points of homing explosive damage in 3 seconds.

[nepacaka]

I remember watching the first .gif of a Nief in action and counted the number of double-shots it made once it used it's three-second duration ability. I remember seeing nine double-shots (a.k.a. 18 seekers shot) during that period, which calculates out to a 100% increase in RoF while the ability is engaged.

Put another way, for 3 seconds a Nief increases its DPS by 100%. If each SeekerXT does 65 DPS, then that means normally a Nief does 130 DPS, and when it's ability is engaged it does 260 DPS for 3 seconds. That's 780 points of homing explosive damage in 3 seconds.

Well, I miscalculated a little. A little...xD

Even with this, 100% firerate it is just... It is not a mistake. (actually, it doesn't matter, 100%, or 80%, or 40%.) I mean, devs do it specially, and they know how IT can kill people. When you are game-designer, and create a mech, and know how other mech working, you can't just mistake when you project a mech like this. Like "oh, we add to him 100% rof, I'm sure it will be 100% balanced, yep". Meh... No.
Things like this actually highly decrease my trust-meter. And than more time I sit at forum, thinking more about other things, and got more info about all of this, than less I believe in future. I mean, maybe RLD ressurect hawken, but probably, it will be a hawken-boat without place for me :P
Have no idea why I still think: "Nepa, all be alright! Just wait a little". Probably, I'm or very optimistic, or very stupid. Obviously, one of them is true xD

Edited by nepacaka, 13 July 2016 - 02:19 PM.

[Flifang]

50 shades of brown, starring: your nose.  

Weren't you that player that played so little at one point I had to tell you how muting people in game mutes their chat?

[DemitronPrime]

When PC is updated, there will be patch notes. 

 

And when is that?

 

I only have one shotgun shell left and I want to know when i need to start practicing my curt cobain

[Flifang]

I don't need you speaking for me...and certainly don't care for your insulting comments towards myself and other members of this community that share an opinion that may be different than your's with your blatant sucking up. 

That's entirely fair, and I can see why you and others would think I was being a suck up. That's something I've run to pretty often. I just don't like seeing people get unfairly ganged up on. So, I defend them. These people aren't my boss, they're just the people now in charge of the development of one of my favorite games of all time, and so far I'm not entirely dissatisfied with the job they're doing.

 

I feel like I was reaching with my last big post, and so I took a step back and decided to just think about all this. I still feel pretty strongly about 99% of what I stated in this thread, but I think I'm done risking looking like an ass talking about things I'm not 100% certain are correct. It's a really bad habit of mine. I appreciate the maturity of this post. I was in a fairly grumpy mood when I did my other posts in this thread, which is likely the cause of the insults. Nobody deserves that. Not the devs, not you, and certainly not anyone else here. My crabbyness is no excuse for what I said, but I would like to ask for forgiveness. I feel I may have another "brown-nosing" comment coming on from this but this is important. I feel bad and I want people here to know that.

[crockrocket]

We gotta organize a Bunker Siege with Nief VS Rocketeer.

That gives me a thought actually. Are/when are custom servers coming to console?

[WillyW]

WillyW supports this statement. 

 

WillyW is also responsible for half of my crushing kills in the past year

 

I'm glad to have been able to donate some. The best is when I'm on Origin or Uptown and I waddle off the bridge and get a crush kill while still in turret mode. I still strongly think there should be an achievement for that. You feel like Kirby in SSB when she does the rock attack. Hahaha

 

Just wait until console players figure out why the Extractor and Repair Kit are combined with Repair Charges on the VG.I just use Repair Charges on their own and its powerful enough, as you very well know. The biggest downfall I've found is the turn cap being a severely limiting factor in turret mode on console. Turn cap on PC is much more favorable for tracking in turret mode. Maybe increase turn cap while turreted? Considering they brought turret mode back for the Gren, it seems fair.

Personally, the B3-AR isn't my favorite weapon. But its still a decent sustain compared to SMC and Vulcan. I never got the hang of the Mini-Flak anyway.

Edited by WillyW, 14 July 2016 - 08:08 AM.

[ARCH3TYP3]

Personally, the B3-AR isn't my favorite weapon. But its still a decent sustain compared to SMC and Vulcan. I never got the hang of the Mini-Flak anyway.

Could you elaborate? We are told that the spin up time has been reduced. Is it true? Is the spin up quicker than the Vulcan at least? Could you contrast it with the SMC and how it affects your play style on the Vanguard?
Thanks.

[StubbornPuppet]

Kirby is NOT a girl. >:(

[nepacaka]

Could you elaborate? We are told that the spin up time has been reduced. Is it true? Is the spin up quicker than the Vulcan at least? Could you contrast it with the SMC and how it affects your play style on the Vanguard?
Thanks.

BEAR at console-vanguard don't have a spin up time, it start shoot immediately, and increase fire rate every second. SMC shoot with constant fire rate and dps.
You no need time to reaching max dps if compare smc with bear. Also, Vulcan have spin up time, but when it start shooting it have the same dps too.
I.e., Vulcan start shoot with max dps, you just press LMB before you see enemy. It is impossible with bear, if you press LMB early, you start shoot immediately and add heat to yourself. This is why it worse than smc or Vulcan, which don't have this disadvantage and don't lose dps.

Edited by nepacaka, 14 July 2016 - 01:32 PM.

[ThirdEyE]

Over time, the goal is to have all 3 platforms running on the same commit number, since that will make code and feature management, release management, and hosting operations a whole lot easier and more efficient.

 

For all the PC platform fans, don�t lose heart!  Big things are in store.  As I mentioned, the plan is to get all the platforms up to feature parity, and then advance them all forward at the same time.

 

Console versions will always be different from the PC versions and it's easier to keep them separate and gather feedback for each individually. PC will be getting updated, after the consoles are out the door and stable. It will take time. 

 

So I'm a little confused by this.  The recent update makes it sound like the console and PC versions will be the same at some point, even though you previously said that they will always be different.  Are you developing two (three if you differentiate PS4 and Xbone) versions of the same game simultaneously?  Is your plan to release different patches with the same patch number?  Or will all platforms effectively be running the same version once you're all caught up on patching?

 

Some elaboration would be really nice here.  Right now your communication is clear as mud.

[DallasCreeper]

BEAR at console-vanguard don't have a spin up time, it start shoot immediately, and increase fire rate every second. SMC shoot with constant fire rate and dps.
You no need time to reaching max dps if compare smc with bear. Also, Vulcan have spin up time, but when it start shooting it have the same dps too.
I.e., Vulcan start shoot with max dps, you just press LMB before you see enemy. It is impossible with bear, if you press LMB early, you start shoot immediately and add heat to yourself. This is why it worse than smc or Vulcan, which don't have this disadvantage and don't lose dps.

The B3AR on Vanguard is like the BBY B3AR on Incin

[nepacaka]

So I'm a little confused by this. The recent update makes it sound like the console and PC versions will be the same at some point, even though you previously said that they will always be different.

I understand devs word like they make all versions the same, but if (for example) scout will be imbalanced at PC, they just nerf it, but leave scout at consoles the same, because it balanced well for consoles. etc.
So, gameplay and general rules will be the same, but some numbers can be a little different between PC, xbox/ps4.

[Xacius]

Weren't you that player that played so little at one point I had to tell you how muting people in game mutes their chat?

Is that really all you have on me?  Lol.  I simply never had a reason to mute people.  On the other hand, I can see you as the type of person that would want to plug their ears and sing "LALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALALA!"

 

Seems to fit with your posting methodology.  

Edited by Xacius, 15 July 2016 - 03:11 PM.

[Darktim300]

Xacius likes poking people's dead bodies and hearing the response. Why would he mute you so he couldn't hear that?

[StubbornPuppet]

Xacius likes poking people's dead bodies and hearing the response. Why would he mute you so he couldn't hear that?

 

Reminds me of a movie I saw recently:

Edited by StubbornPuppet, 15 July 2016 - 08:47 PM.

[Aelita]

Nif ?!?!?

 

 0.o

 

 

 

Maybe i should read the forums more often ... then again no.

[1uster]

It's  your mech Aelita. You will love it.

[Aelita]

It's  your mech Aelita. You will love it.

 

 

I just saw a video on  youtube. not sure if a doubleseeker is what i consider my style (looks rather OP). but to be honest i would throw a party for every update now. Btw, the game looks great on console, from what i ve seen.

[ARCH3TYP3]

I have a question. Do the double primaries always fire in sync, even if you stagger LMB/RMB?
Dual seeker, dual flak, dual rev gl....?
It would seem a little extreme to have dual mini flaks, for instance, firing out of sync while you hold your cross hairs on a moving target; sort of doubling your chances of hitting an elusive player as he tries to move out of your cross hairs.
If one misses by 20 milliseconds out of position, the staggered secondary could theoretically hit, etc.

[DerMax]

I have a question. Do the double primaries always fire in sync, even if you stagger LMB/RMB?
Dual seeker, dual flak, dual rev gl....?
It would seem a little extreme to have dual mini flaks, for instance, firing out of sync while you hold your cross hairs on a moving target; sort of doubling your chances of hitting an elusive player as he tries to move out of your cross hairs.
If one misses by 20 milliseconds out of position, the staggered secondary could theoretically hit, etc.

1. Make an assumption.

2. Continue on as if the assumption was a fact.

 

Yes, you can fire dual weapons independently.

[ARCH3TYP3]

1. Make an assumption.

2. Continue on as if the assumption was a fact.

 

Yes, you can fire dual weapons independently.

Forgive me; I am having trouble understanding your response..were you being facetious? 

I assure you, I was asking in sincerity and giving a theoretical instance simply to demonstrate how OP it could potentially be in my view, if it were true. 

[Arkhaun]

it maybe true but sadly overheat isnt independent regardless

 

 

because THAT would be cool...

 

Edited by Arkhaun, 17 July 2016 - 10:34 AM.

[Hecatoncheires]

I don't really feel they are an issue. They piss some players off yes, but they are easy enough to dodge and their damage per second can be outdone without too much effort. 

 

Though, this is from my point of view and my damage output. Newer players might** have problems duplicating this.

 

** https://www.youtube....0&v=3oQTKIC-EJo

 

Said mech destroying the new little guys.

After watching this video, I think the best approach to balancing The Nief would be to increase the seeker's heat rate (dramatically) and decrease the Nief's walking speed.

This would force the player to be economical with their missiles and boost to get from point A to B quickly--revealing themselves on radar while doing so and also limiting its long-range capabilities since it wouldn't be able to sustain ideal long-range combat without boosting very frequently.

This would also keep in line with being a "missile-shooting" mech since the story could be that the Nief sacrificed mechanical mass in order to allow a heavier thruster system and needed tracking missiles in order to compensate its lack of maneuverability.

Edited by Hecatoncheires, 17 July 2016 - 12:00 PM.

[MomOw]

After watching this video, I think the best approach to balancing the Nief would be to give him an EOC as primary weapon.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

^ this made me laugh in surprised agreement.  The surprise came after I actually considered it.

[DallasCreeper]

^ this made me laugh in surprised agreement.  The surprise came after I actually considered it.

EOC with fire rate Buff sounds like more of a C-Class Killer than Seeker.