174 replies to this topic

[CZeroFive]

Hey folks,

 

CZeroFive here. I’m one of the gameplay programmers for Hawken and I have some exciting stuff to share with you today.

 

I would like to give you an update and get your opinions on upcoming changes to the console game, and share with you some upcoming updates to the way Primary Weapons, Internals, and Items work.

 

We’re going to be reintroducing a few elements to the console game, namely, the ability to switch out your primary weapons, adding back in the internals system from PC, and adding back in the items system from PC.

 

Let’s begin with a bit of an explanation of each:

 

Primary Weapons

 

Historically, on PC, Mechs have a default Primary, and an Alternate and Prestige Primary Weapon, both of which were available for purchase with MC at any time, and then upon achieving appropriate mech ranks, the weapon would also be purchasable with HC. Internally, this led to a few problems - we could not simply add a weapon easily to a Mech that we wanted to have the weapon available, beyond 2 choices. There were also parts of code that tied into the alternate and prestige weapon system, which limited your choices to simply those two weapons.

 

On Console, Mechs had only a single primary weapon; and no other ones to change out. This is good in theory, but dull in terms of overall gameplay. In a Mech shooter, you expect to be able to customize some of the weapons. Lore-wise, the weapons were basically bolted onto the Mechs when they were created, and it just did not make sense that you could not change them.

 

Players checking the game out from the PC side were confused as to why we did this, and we don’t blame them - the system worked in theory, but that left the progression options restricted. It would also set a bad precedent for when we would eventually move the console codebase over to the PC codebase, as the data would be largely incompatible.

 

Fast-forward to post-console launch. The initial goal was to enable more weapons to be available on every mech… at first, it was 5 weapons total, with 2 of them being alternate and prestige, and those were given for free upon reaching mech ranks x and y… whereas the others would be purchasable at any time for MC or HC. This, as you can imagine, had a few problems that we encountered during development.

1. The PC game and Console game somewhat diverged from each other in terms of design direction.

2. We wanted to unify the two codebases together, without creating imbalances for legacy PC players that had weapons that were not typically available.

3. The weapons that have been available in console have been just one weapon per mech. It would make a lot more sense to just enable the PC weapons as an ‘extra’ weapon as opposed to a prestige or secondary weapon.

4. There would be multiple issues of enabling more than a few weapons per Mech from a balance standpoint. We simply did not have enough weapons to support that many options per Mech.

We also encountered issues awarding the Alternate and Prestige weapons for free:

1. The underlying codebase did not have a means for awarding anything automatically on a per-mech basis, and we’re working with some internal restrictions for ‘free’ purchases.

2. We were going to award everything at a discounted price upon hitting the appropriate rank. However, this discount, once we applied it to one instance of the weapon, would apply to ALL Mechs for that weapon, and again we hit a technical limitation during development where we had to scrap the idea of awarding things for free. We could’ve made multiple offers for each Mech, but that would be a nightmare to maintain, and there would be an issue with multiple offers pointed at the same game item due to how the initial system was coded years ago.

 

So we agreed on a final idea that would work for everyone: Mechs will have one or more Primary weapons available for purchase at all times with HC or MC.  All mechs will have just 1 secondary weapon.  The entire notion of Prestige and Alternate weapons goes away, since if we’re all honest, the terminology was confusing.

 

There will be some mechs that only have 1 primary and 1 secondary weapon, largely these will be mechs that are unique in terms of loadout.

 

Oddly enough, this is close enough to PC as it stands that it will work ‘out of the box’ with the dataset from PC when we do end up merging in the codebase for PC.

 

Additionally, over time, we will be able to release more weapons for use with certain Mechs; this will be based on community feedback and balance concerns raised internally and externally.

 

*If* “prestige” and “alternate” weapons are reintroduced in the future, they will likely be “grindable-only” items, but we would need to do work to support per-mech awards as that is not currently integrated.

 

Below is a teaser (subject to change) of the interface used to switch out weapons. We picked a Mech that has a community favorite for the loadouts (also subject to change):

 

 

 

Internals

The internals system from PC will be making a return to the console game in the same form that it is on PC right now, with a few tweaks. For those who don’t know what the internals system from PC is, the internals system is a system where you can slot up to 6 ‘internals’ into your Mech, each with their own benefit. Some internals may take up more ‘slots’ than others. Some  internals may come at a cost to other functionality, however, largely they will be mostly positive to start out. They’re the same items used in the console game right now for individual mech loadouts.

 

Below are the tweaks we’ve made to the console version of the internals system:

 

Tech Groups will be going away and instead will be replaced with a notion that you cannot equip multiple internals of the same type, e.g. you cannot equip both the basic and advanced variants of the same internal.

 

There’s a new type of internal we are going to be trying out: the 4-slot internal. These are mainly in place to balance the repair kit and extractor initially. Historically, the repair kit and extractor internals were far too powerful. They allowed you to receive too much self healing. We danced around the idea for a bit, and largely the community spoke and said these internals are simply too powerful. So, instead, we made some changes to the way these internals work directly instead of beating around the bush trying to make them work:

 

Here are the new stats for the Basic, “Normal”, Advanced and new Expert Internal of these types:

 

Basic Extractor: 2%

Extractor: 3.5%

Advanced Extractor: 10%

Expert Extractor: 15%

 

Basic Repair Kit: 5%

Repair Kit: 10%

Advanced Repair Kit: 15%

Expert Repair Kit: 20%

 

The goal is to allow for these internals to fit their intended roles better. For example, in Siege mode, you may be more inclined to use an extractor internal over a repair kit internal as it applies to energy units and not just your own personal armor.

 

The internals from PC will all largely stay the same benefit/stat wise unless otherwise noted above.

 

We are also experimenting with the concept of positive-negative internals. Here is a picture of the single new internal that we will be adding to the console patch (subject to balancing concerns, of course):

 

 

 

 

Items

 

The items system from PC is making a return to consoles as well! This system will allow you to fully customize the two items that are equipped in your Mech to any item that’s currently in the game. Items are unlocked per-mech just like internals.

 

Below are the changes we’ve made to the console version of the items system:

 

We are now making each item a 3-slot item. This is so you are more strategic in your choice of items. The other, lower slot items exist as a cost-effective way of getting an item you want (in example, if don’t have enough MC/HC to afford a higher item for this mech, you can unlock a lower one.)

 

Unlike internals, they do not follow tech group or one-per-mech rules. This is subject to change with feedback.

This includes the new items such as the Shock Turret in the available choices for Mech loadouts. Speaking of which, here is a picture of that item.

 

 

Feedback Needed!

First, we’d like to thank you all for being supportive of Hawken. We’re glad that you guys have been voicing your concerns, and we would like you to continue to do so.

We’re hoping to get more feedback on these upcoming changes from both PC and Console players, so please post your feedback in this thread.

 

Thank you very much for your continued support and love of Hawken, and we hope to bring all of these updates to you soon!

Until next time,

 

CZeroFive

Edited by CZeroFive, 25 October 2016 - 12:50 PM.

[wischatesjesus]

 

Unlike internals, they do not follow tech group or one-per-mech rules. This is subject to change with feedback.

 

Does this mean I can equip duplicate items? Becasue I will run 6 emps.

 

As for the orblord thing, I think a lot of the people who were asking for changes to the internals were thinking something a bit more in depth than a numbers tweak. 

 

Also Advanced Repair kit is esactly the same from PC to the numbers you mentioned. New numbers look reasonably good.

Edited by wischatesjesus, 25 October 2016 - 02:34 PM.

[_incitatus]

I like this concept of positive-negative internals.  Curious as to what other internals you guys will come up with.

[DerMax]

First, Josh went missing. Then Tiggs. How much time does C05 have until they get him?

[HOHOHOSANTA]

remove '''Advance"" and "Expert" type of those internals then it would be good. No need to have such high percentages, in game thats suppose to be skill based, and have your ''C'' button.

[CZeroFive]

It was just brought to my attention that the values for Expert internals are actually higher than PC's 3slot. That is not the intention and I'll be editing the posts.

[CZeroFive]

Does this mean I can equip duplicate items? Becasue I will run 6 emps.

 

No - you can only equip 2 items now, as they are all 3-slot internals now.

Edited by CZeroFive, 25 October 2016 - 12:57 PM.

[TheButtSatisfier]

No - you can only equip 2 items now, as they are all 3-slot internals now.

 

I think what Inci means is that he'll equip the "highest" EMP item variant which comes with 3 EMP charges, twice.

 

On PC Hawken you can't equip two items of the same type, but it's not clear if that same restriction is going to be included in console Hawken.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 25 October 2016 - 01:07 PM.

[CZeroFive]

I think what Inci means is that he'll equip the "highest" EMP item variant which comes with 3 EMP charges, twice.

 

You can only buy one of those, and can only equip it once. So you'd have 5, technically.

 

It may not be a bad idea to restrict those in the same manner as internals, we'll see.

Edited by CZeroFive, 25 October 2016 - 01:08 PM.

[_incitatus]

I think what Inci means is that he'll equip the "highest" EMP item variant which comes with 3 EMP charges, twice.

 

Actually, that was some other guy...

 

BUT, the 3 charge emps were 4 slots already.  Does this mean we can has two 2-charge emps (3 slots each)?

 

Does this also mean i can't run the item regen with 3 emps?  Or is item regen still a one slot itme?  Item regen is a must with emps...

 

Edit:  I can has 5 emps?  ORLY?

Edited by _incitatus, 25 October 2016 - 01:10 PM.

[HOHOHOSANTA]

6 scanners ftw 

[TheButtSatisfier]

Actually, that was some other guy...

 

BUT, the 3 charge emps were 4 slots already.  Does this mean we can has two 2-charge emps (3 slots each)?

 

Does this also mean i can't run the item regen with 3 emps?  Or is item regen still a one slot itme?  Item regen is a must with emps...

 

Edit:  I can has 5 emps?  ORLY?

 

From what I (probably incorrectly) recall, there's 6 available item slots on both console and PC Hawken. In console Hawken, there were two locked items per mech. Both of them consumed 3 slots, but the player could upgrade the items to be 1, 2, and 3 charges respectively without changing how many slots the items took up. That's different from what you described with PC Hawken where an item's charge quantities determined how many slots it takes up (2 slots for 1 charge, 3 slots for 2 charges, and 4 slots for 3 charges).

 

 

We are now making each item a 3-slot item. This is so you are more strategic in your choice of items. The other, lower slot items exist as a cost-effective way of getting an item you want (in example, if don’t have enough MC/HC to afford a higher item for this mech, you can unlock a lower one.)

 

Unlike internals, they do not follow tech group or one-per-mech rules. This is subject to change with feedback.

This includes the new items such as the Shock Turret in the available choices for Mech loadouts. Speaking of which, here is a picture of that item.

 

That part is a little confusing. Are all items on consoles going to be 3 slots regardless of # of charges, or are the "lower slot" items literally 2 and 1 slot items now with 2 and 1 charges respectively?

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 25 October 2016 - 01:19 PM.

[CZeroFive]

 

From what I (probably incorrectly) recall, there's 6 available item slots on both console and PC Hawken. In console Hawken, there were two locked items per mech. Both of them consumed 3 slots, but the player could upgrade the items to be 1, 2, and 3 charges respectively without changing how many slots the items took up. That's different from what you described with PC Hawken where an item's charge quantities determined how many slots it takes up (2 slots for 1 charge, 3 slots for 2 charges, and 4 slots for 3 charges).

 

 

That part is a little confusing. Are all items on consoles going to be 3 slots regardless of # of charges, or are the "lower slot" items literally 2 and 1 slot items now with 2 and 1 charges respectively?

 

 

They're gonna be 3-slot items with 1-2 charges. Essentially just cost effective ways of getting items quicker but less charges.

[TheButtSatisfier]

You can only buy one of those, and can only equip it once. So you'd have 5, technically.

 

It may not be a bad idea to restrict those in the same manner as internals, we'll see.

 

To make sure I understand correctly: you're saying that a pilot can purchase and equip the highest variant of an item (which gives 3 charges), and they can then purchase the next step down variant of that same item (which gives 2 charges) and equip them both for a total of five of the same items, right?

 

If that's the case then... well, honestly I don't have an opinion. I've never thought about equipping more than 3 of any item because we haven't been able to so far, and I don't know if there's a balance issue with equipping < 3 charges of the same item because of item usage cooldowns and evaporation times for deployed items. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

Edit: I suppose I can see this being a problem with EMP spam

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 25 October 2016 - 01:25 PM.

[TheButtSatisfier]

They're gonna be 3-slot items with 1-2 charges. Essentially just cost effective ways of getting items quicker but less charges.

 

Thanks for the clarification. It might be worthwhile editing your OP with that context too if ya feel up to it.

[onedemnoobs]

this all sounds great... but i am curious...

 

when will these changes land on PC?

do we have a date?

[Guns_N_Rozer]

i though PC update is coming but ..

[CZeroFive]

this all sounds great... but i am curious...

 

when will these changes land on PC?

do we have a date?

 

No eta on when it hits PC yet. Sorry

[TheButtSatisfier]

While I sympathize with other people's eagerness for a PC patch, I figure it's worth restating this:

 

Thank you Reloaded for not rushing a PC patch. Keep experimenting on the consoles until you get it "right". Most PC players were confused and frustrated with the lack of console-based mech customization, and I think it's a good sign that you guys are learning by (re)introducing mech customization. Keep doing that until whatever patch you come out with for PC Hawken is a true update and not a regression in any way. If you're planning on a major marketing push for that first patch in years, then I think that's the best way to do it, and not with "and to mark the first PC Hawken patch in years, we're trying out all this random fuzzy bunny too!"

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 25 October 2016 - 02:12 PM.

[DallasCreeper]

Soon™

ftfy

[DingdongJR]

Perhaps there is still hope.. 

[JackVandal]

Heavy armor turret vanguard ftw, especially if it has composite, wonder if they stack additionally or multiplicative, 

[CZeroFive]

Heavy armor turret vanguard ftw, especially if it has composite, wonder if they stack additionally or multiplicative, 

I am not sure they even stack, I'll have to check. I'd prefer them not to stack or have diminishing returns for balance purposes.

[HOHOHOSANTA]

Heavy armor turret vanguard ftw, especially if it has composite, wonder if they stack additionally or multiplicative, 

heavy armor turret, vanguard, turretmode, and 5 ORBS ! never dying~

[wischatesjesus]

Heavy armor turret vanguard ftw, especially if it has composite, wonder if they stack additionally or multiplicative, 

 

 

All the more reason for me to run 5 emps!

[JackVandal]

I am not sure they even stack, I'll have to check. I'd prefer them not to stack or have diminishing returns for balance purposes.

cause if its a additive then thats 25% less damage, on any class, or 85% on vanguard turret. multiplicative its not as bad, but still not good.

[007eleven]

Nice to see some actual changes, keep it up!

[crockrocket]

First, Josh went missing. Then Tiggs. How much time does C05 have until they get him?

One of those is an improvement.

[CZeroFive]

cause if its a additive then thats 25% less damage, on any class, or 85% on vanguard turret. multiplicative its not as bad, but still not good.

Absolutely agree now that it's laid out like this post is, that they should be on some sort of diminishing returns or non-additive curve. I'll make sure we don't go live without it being looked into to confirm it's not brokenly op.

[Amidatelion]

So first off...

 

 

Secondly,

 

 

As for the orblord thing, I think a lot of the people who were asking for changes to the internals were thinking something a bit more in depth than a numbers tweak. 

 

I disagree. I vastly prefer this over the other idea which did not address the core of the issue. A gradual adjustment of numbers is a good, cautious way to proceed, so long as further tweaks are willing to be made. Further tweaks can also include layering other mechanics on top of these basic steps.

 

Nothing to say on the item front that hasn't already been covered.

 

Hail the Communicative Dev!

Edited by Amidatelion, 25 October 2016 - 07:50 PM.

[teeth_03]

I do not like the "tied to a specific mech" items/internals. I never have and that is why most of my Mechs went without them.

 

What I would like to see:

 

I buy a grenade for Mech A. I would like the ability to remove that Grenade from Mech A and place it on Mech B. If it turns out both Mechs benefit from the grenade, I will buy another one for Mech A.

 

With this system, I would buy multiples of everything just because I can switch them around and probably find a use for items I would have otherwise not tried.

 

Either do this, or have a paid option for global unlocks, but I am strongly against buying something just to have it tied to one specific mech.

[Draco3]

CZeroFive thanks for the update.  As a PC gamer I guess I will just have to wait but the sooner the better obviously.  One question are you now doing the Dev updates moving forward?  What happened to Tiggs (or even Josh posting)?  Has some of the negativity on the forums gone too far and Tiggs / Josh are no longer willing to participate in the forums?  Have they moved on to other things in conjunction with future development of Hawken?

Edited by Draco3, 25 October 2016 - 08:43 PM.

[JackVandal]

Secondary feedback, i think the shock turret shouldn't be squish-able, it would be a good buff for most turrets, but especially one supposed to be dropped in the middle of the enemy team. also, does the mechs nearby include both teams or only the enemy team?

[6ixxer]

can run 5 emps yet no one supports the idea of an internal that reduces your time affected by emp by a sec or two based on internal rank.

if i walk into a match full of emp spam i know i'm gonna want that internal on one of my mechs.
if I am creating the emp spam i might want it.

[nepacaka]

I am not sure they even stack, I'll have to check. I'd prefer them not to stack or have diminishing returns for balance purposes.

why not put these internal instead composite? i doubt than we need more internals which stacking armor in %
in old hawken, we also have some +/- several internals, but they was divided by groups, so you can equip only one of them.

some things about "Heavy armor". firls of all, i just interesting how you test it and how you calculated this %. how i see this:
900 HP (have no idea which boost speed brawler have on console but i think quite the same as a PC ver.)
24.32 - boost, 15 - walking

Brawler with "Heavy armor"
990 HP
18,24 m/s boost, 11.25 m/s walking speed
it is literally making brawler boost with the same speed like assault walk. i bet 90% that this internal is literally turn you into "free walking damage points".
90 HP is not compensation for such slowing.

Scout (based on PC scout numbers, but difference not really high with console)
320 HP
39.80 boost, 22.5 walking

with "Heavy armor"
352 HP
29,85 m/s boost, 16,87 m/s walking - it is ~average B-class speed.
literally, this internal turn scout into B-class speed, and got you 32 HP. lol. 

so, this internal actually useless probably for every mech, except nub-vanguard who always play in turret-mode, and made van turret even more stronger right now. (actually, only vanguard have good turret mode, and can use it sometimes, more often, than brawler or rocketeer)

my version from another thread about internals and orblording
 

some ideas about composite armor.

it should be reworked. nerf not help. 

  1) speed based "composite". (not sure if this is a good idea, probably not)
1 slot = +2% HP, -5% walk, boost, and air speed (full mech speed except dodge speed and cooldown)
2 slot = +4% HP, -10% walk, boost, and air speed (full mech speed except dodge speed and cooldown)
3 slot = +6% HP, -15% walk, boost, and air speed (full mech speed except dodge speed and cooldown)
this mean, it will be usefull on C-class (and maybe some , because working in %

Brawler got - 800HP*6%= +48 HP buff, and 24.32ms*-15% = -3.65ms speed nerf.
total with 3 slot "composite" - 848HP and 20.67 speed nerf.

Scout got - 320HP*6%= 19.2 HP buff, and 39.80ms*-15% = -5.97ms speed nerf.
total with 3 slot "composite" - 339.2 HP buff, and 33.83 speed nerf.

it is mean composite is not very good for a-class, losing much more speed, and hp bonus not very much for such sacrifice. but c-class can use it to be more tanky, and at the same time they lose less speed. (but probably it can be imba with current C-class HP, because now 6-Class it is just imba with a lot of HP. My personal opinion, you should decrease B and C class HP, and got him +0,5/+1% speed. 6 brawlers with 900+ HP... just imba, have no idea how to stop these "walking walls" :3

  2) the second way
1 slot = +1% HP
2 slot = +2.5% HP
3 slot = +5% HP
Just spent you slots to got small amount of bonus armor

  3) the third way. rename composite armor into "Dynamic armor" internal (i like this variant)
1 slot = increase you armor rate to +3% when your HP is below 30% (or 25%)
2 slot = increase you armor rate to +6% when your HP is below 30% (or 25%)
3 slot = increase you armor rate to +9% when your HP is below 30% (or 25%)
numbers can be different and should be tested. this also can help some C-class in tanking which lifepool is high. 

Now it is "help survival" internal, instead suicidal.

 

the main idea, -25% it is TOO MUCH even for C-class. Heavy armor just decrease you class speed, like A->B, B->C, C->always in turret more
but 10% not cost of such immobilize, even Brawler which got Max. HP with this (+90 HP), meh... 90 HP it is even not help you survive a "one TOW in face" (like 125/100*10=112,5 damage vs 90HP).

It is also even more INCREASE mech life, which is can be negative for siege, because you can see 6 Vanguards with 5 orbs at AA, because in siege you no need use whole map, you just can go at AA and sit here (who need collect EU? yep, not me! )

this internal obvioulsy nerf your mech if you trying to play on big maps, or on open maps. like frontline, LE, and even bunker. Just because you will got bullets from any direction and you can't do nothing with this, and can't runaway. and +90, +50, +30 hp not help you. this internal just "Kill You Faster".
it also make you very in MA game mode, cuz it is all about Running, and Kill you in TDM mode, where "Staying in group is a KEY" (obviously, 90 HP not help to survive against 6 enemy, when your scout team ruanaway for regroup and just forgot about you)
it is also bad in DM, where all what you can do with this internal, sit in corner with vanguard turret mode and have a 5 orb, and wait till dumb enemy trying overdamage you, or waiting till enemy with EMP turn-off you and make a free frag.

dis is my feedback and opinion.

my own recomendations for test it and be better:
Variant 1
- Decrease +armor %, and decrease -speed %
1) "+5% armor, - 5% speed" or  "+5% armor, -10% speed" (for 3 slot internal)
2) "+3, +6, +9% armor, -5, -10, -15% speed" (for 1,2,3 slot internal)

Variant 2
make "Haevy Armor" allow penalty ONLY for your WALKING speed. NOT ALL mech speed!
like "+10% Armor, -15% Walking speed, and make C-Class lose boost ability while turret-mode" (25% is too much even for brawler. 15-20% +/- adequate) 


my feedback ?2.
you still don't do nothing with composite, and allow player use 5 EMP, 5 Shields, 5  Orbs (with new ridiculous % percentage for new elite repair-kit, or extractor, just lol.)
don't get me wrong, but it is sound like a:
- "we trying to solve orb-lording problems, this why we increase slot and % rate for internals, this is why we allow you bring 5 orbs instead 3 and consume even more healts without any problems !!!"

trying to save all bad mechanics in game, it is not a way to fix it.

Edited by nepacaka, 25 October 2016 - 11:57 PM.

[nepacaka]

About 5 weapons on one mech.

It is probably not bad, but it always depends on Which weapons you added, and how it can ruine mech role.

for example, added AR on a Raider. it is look quite stupid, because it is mechs created for close combat. Another stupid way how you can ruine it, for example, put breacher on a raider. Yes, breacher it is also shotgun, but it allow to shoot from any range, and put something like this can cause quite unbalanced mechs combinatinations.

there is another bad way i see in 5 primary weapons mechanics. 
Adding some weapons can making all other weapons useless. Just because mech with this weapons can be much more usefull and the other weapons just "no need to him"

this mechanic also still cause problems for mech balance, for example, Flak-Brawler and Flak-Scout. these mechs are totally differents, and Flak on scout can be devastative, due the high speed. At the same time, Flak on brawler working different, he don't have super speed to use. And if you trying nerf scout flak, it is automatically a highly nerf for a brawler. it is not good.

my question from last topic is still active:
Devs, can you tell us more about weapons (if you trying to put 5 weapons on mech, can you teel about list of these weapons, which new weapons every mech got?) Before you implement this in game.

the quality is not equal quantity. And put more the same imba-wepons on mech, you risk to see a games full of crt-recruit with breachers, or bunch of different mechs with Vulcans. it is quite bored. mech class mostly depends on his weapons. you risk to fully ruined this, and cause effect where every player use one combination, just because it is imba. 
even right now situation +/- the same on many mechs (i mean, you no need use all weapons, just because one of three is better and more universal). 
Hawken also have many mechs right now, about ~15-17. it will be quite different do not create a "replicant" mech (for example, CRT, berserk, and Assault on PC. they are the same weapons in a difference body, and it create situations like CRT<Assault. CRT is useless mech, because Assault have the same weapons, but just have better stats, as a result, CRT is literally, no need in this game. i know you change Salt on console, but i hope you got my idea, some mechs will be a not actual, because in game exist his copy, with the same weapons loadout, but with better stats.)
 

[MomOw]

We could use the whole hawken corporation lore to have one "standard" weapon per brand that would be available for those mechs.

 

For example AR and RPR hawkins are close, so let's make one a "prosk weapon" and the other a "sentium weapon", and as they are correct standard weapon make them available for all prosk / sentium all rounder mechs (keep niche mechs with locked weapons).

 

I've glitched an AR raider and an AR predator, they lose burst capability for more steady DPS and range but they are still playable.

 

I'm a bit sad about the "locked secondary" because I still dream of a CRT-recruit with fixed AR and choice between GL / TOW / hellfire (it would really have been great). But I understand that.

 

About "how many weapons should be available" : if you make duplicate weapons available it's kinda pointless because it doesn't really add variety

It's OK to have a choice between : SMC / RPR / AR / BBY available but in fact I don't care much.

 

Having the choice between SMC / SA-hawkins / Point-D make much more sense, but can be more tricky to balance.

 

Take the raider, the brawler or the scout as (almost) correct examples of weapon choice : reflak / T32 are real options, flak / SA are real options, flak / heat are real options.

 

BUT some rebalance are really needed (EOC repeater rof while uncharged, hellfire dumbfire mode...)

 

So to sum-up : I'd be careful with weapon variety. An easy way to do that is to keep the correct choice from PC version and a "standard" assault rifle as choice.

 

EDIT : second thought I definitely want that reflak assault and breacher berzerker 

Edited by MomOw, 26 October 2016 - 01:00 AM.

[crockrocket]

 

Edit: I suppose I can see this being a problem with EMP spam

 

I can see 30 EMPs per team spawn being problematic.... 

 

Anyway I've just now been able to load the OP (was on mobile earlier). Solid update, thanks for the communication co5

[CZeroFive]

I can see 30 EMPs per team spawn being problematic.... 

 

Anyway I've just now been able to load the OP (was on mobile earlier). Solid update, thanks for the communication co5

 

I actually just went through this morning and hooked up items in the same way internals are hooked up, based on player feedback. You won't be able to equip two items of the same type anymore. So no equipping two EMP items.

 

Probably going to tweak the Heavy Armor internal to be 10% penalty to movement, 5% damage reduction instead. I playtested the 10% reduction and that seems a bit much, even with the penalty to speed.

 

As for Composite Armor, how do you all feel about making it unable to be equipped at the same time as Heavy Armor?

[DingdongJR]

I actually just went through this morning and hooked up items in the same way internals are hooked up, based on player feedback. You won't be able to equip two items of the same type anymore. So no equipping two EMP items.

 

Probably going to tweak the Heavy Armor internal to be 10% penalty to movement, 5% damage reduction instead. I playtested the 10% reduction and that seems a bit much, even with the penalty to speed.

 

As for Composite Armor, how do you all feel about making it unable to be equipped at the same time as Heavy Armor?

 

If you are going along with the idea of armour types, it would be sensible for one to only be equitable at once. I can see numerous armour types available for experimentation. 

 

Heavy Armour:  More armour, less speed

Light Armour:  Less armour, more speed.

 

Perhaps an armour type that increases cooldown power time but decreases defence? 

 

Or one that increases power duration at the cost of increased power cooldown?

 

There is plenty to play around with here, and that's just armour types.

Edited by DingdongJR, 26 October 2016 - 03:10 AM.