283 replies to this topic

[ATX22]

The quake games have had the same weapons

more or less since their very inception.

So what did they do

to help keep things new?

They add maps with each new generation.

 

Don't forget about the modding community and all that they added to the various Quake games.  There were simple weapon fire rate mods to total conversion mods that kept those games going, something Hawken doesn't have.  There also weren't any big F2P games around at the time that ate through people's TIME and/or money second only to governments.

 

You also had communities pop up around consumer-operated servers where people would generally hang out rather than the Match-maker induced random match or bust model with a few rentable vendor hosted servers that... "exist".  People had a reason back then to stick with a given game, today, it's more or less what everyone else is playing on your favorite TS or discord server.

[JeffMagnum]

snip

I don't blame you feeling that way with their track record so far at all. I have the same reservations, but my view on it is that they're likely the only devs we're going to get so assuming incompetence and resisting changes they could fuzzy bunny up that might be beneficial doesn't seem very productive.

The main issue is this: Hawken is not going to survive in its current form. I wish the console launches weren't handled so poorly so we could've gotten an idea of what player retention in a fresh market would've looked like with the current PC build, but unfortunately we got what we did. Right now there are a total of approximately 400 players between all three platforms according to the server browser--obviously it's not close to peak hours, but that's still not a great picture seeing how long ago the console ports came out.

So something obviously isn't working. At this point I'm not sure just adding in PC features would be enough to generate enough interest again. I highly doubt it, but it's certainly a step in the right direction. Either way, it's still a fixed class-based shooter with mechs. At this point I think something significant needs to change with that model instead of creating iterations of it like Ascension, the Steam build, or console ports have done. None have had much success, though that's also partially due to various developer errors.

So I think something radically different and more in depth is in order. Focusing on bringing robust meaningful customization is something that hasn't really been attempted, but it's something people want to see in a mech game (and Hawken specifically) judging from a lot of comments on Youtube videos, news on the game, subreddits besides /r/hawken, and elsewhere. These are the people Reloaded needs to win over to get a population, not the people who are sold on the game already. Here's how I think it could be done.

Working hard on removing the P2W stigma that the game still has would help a lot, seeing as it's brought up in comments all the time and turns people off from considering the game. AC should be made universal, level restrictions should be gone, G2 mechs certainly shouldn't exist as they do on consoles, and all mechs should be available for purchase with no playtime. Let new players pick one A-Class and one C-Class and two weapons on each for free after they play a few matches to get a feel for the game, and make it clear that this is going to happen with, for example, post-match screen with a percent bar underneath a labeled graphic of "Mech and Weapon Vouchers" with a description. Do that in addition to an explanation of the same mechanic at the end of the tutorial. Get a community consensus of the difficulty of each mech and rate them out of five stars, and give accurate, clear, and concise info on the playstyles of each mech. Add actual stats to the shop and garage too--basically do everything to allow players to make an informed choice and prevent the feeling that the game is deceiving them somehow. With that system there would be no way for anyone to complain about a mech being P2W even early on because if they got stomped by someone in, say, a Flak/TOW Berserker, they could go get their own in a few matches. If they find the game through videos or a stream and come in with the assumption that a particular mech or weapon is OP, they can get it right off the bat.

Remove needlessly frustrating bugs and mechanics from the game and clean up the maps before making new ones. Getting snagged on an inch-long protrusion from a wall in the middle of a fight or killing yourself with TOW to the face on an invisible piece of the environment are both major fun killers. Fix the bug with parties that absolutely destroys server balance. Remove the weapon raise delay; it does nothing but introduce clunkiness and give defensive (read: boring for most people) play even more of an edge. Fix the bug that does damage to you if you dodge into a downward slope, but if possible keep the opposite which allows you to air dodge up slopes. Fix orblording by either removing the offending internals or making it so you can only absorb one orb at a time. Remove Scanner outright, and this will probably be contentious, but rework EMP into something that doesn't remove player control. Its current iteration is relatively balanced, but in my opinion it's the least fun item to play against after Scanner. Maybe destroy all deployables and orbs within a certain radius? Or make it the electronic equivalent of a smoke grenade that creates a half sphere of x radius which blocks everything behind it for y seconds plus causes an ISM-like effect to mechs inside the affected area.

At the very least, add the ability to equip any combination of weapons to any mech. Having a slot for a weapon mod along the lines of incendiary rounds that do 50% normal damage on impact but a total of 110% damage over three seconds for Slug or decrease explosion radius 50%, increase projectile speed 50% for Heat would be cool too. How about ones for armor, like reactive armor which decreases explosive damage by 20% and increases bullet damage by 20% or cavorite plates which increase explosive damage by 20% and decrease bullet damage by 20%? Of course, these add more variables that need to be balanced, which is made even more difficult by the ability to equip weapons on anything however you want. Because it'd be so time consuming to test everything in-house, create preview builds similar to the HAB ones and offer them for download publicly in a forum section dedicated to feedback.

Add weapon skins or completely new models for them to the cosmetic store, and maybe even add some projectile reskins too. Allow more detailed control over camo application than we have now because the current options are kinda lacking. Put up alternate sound effects for guns in the store because most of the default ones suck. There are just so many untapped sources of money from cosmetics right now it's hard to go into them all.

tl;dr give players way more control and let them build and extensively customize mechs, streamline the game and remove/fix frustrating things, create public testing builds for changes before they go live, remove P2W elements and work on fixing the game's P2W reputation, and add new forms of cosmetics

Edited by JeffMagnum, 04 October 2016 - 10:31 PM.

[crockrocket]

Maybe we're being played. Maybe corporate would like something they can spin as negative feedback towards customization. Maybe I'm a little stoned.

[6ixxer]

Ready assets:

I'd like to see dual PN-223 be viable. Frontloaded enough not to be useless for corner poking and midrange engagements around cover.

I'd also like to see dual Heat on a C-class with shields and failsafe as starter items.

I'd like to see the proximity Tow find its way onto reworked Fred, as we have too many sustain + Tow. IMO Fred needs some love and to resurrect as another noob friendly mech to stand against the twin seekers (too many don't use airburst on standard Tow).

I'd like to see stepping on turrets cause some damage. Preds and milge players need to consciously choose to take the hit, otherwise move away.

 

Assets to develop:

I'd like to see a Heat Cannon variant that charges to fire a triple volley rather than larger (like it's the lovechild of Heat and EOC).

I'd like to see a GL variant that rapidfires small high-velocity 'nades or charges to fire a mirv cluster (faster charging but lower damage than Corsair-KLA)

I'd like to see a twin-slug-cannon that increases RoF by alternating barrels or can fire both at once by charging (lovechild of Hawkins and T32) 

(chargeable or frontloaded weapons IMO are a fun compromise of sustain v burst, and can be noob friendly and hopefully viable in high tier)

 

I'd like to see internals to hide you from scanners when you are just walking, and an internal to reduce duration of ISM/EMP. 

I'd like to see a weapon that debuffs speed from targets (and trolls veteran milge) + I'd like to see internals that reduce effect of debuff weapons.

I'd like some more variety of deployable AoE charges, Anti-repair, redox/vulnerability, magnetic/slowness (anti-debuff internal also mitigates).

IMO, if we end up getting CTF mode, we need a way to slow the flag runner, and ways to disrupt the meta in general.

[nepacaka]

another hawken evolution issue - it stuck around balance. because devs don't want do something general changes. like delete scanner or down regeneration (they actually just can decrease HP from dead-orb say, to 30) which kill fun and move next, and don't waste time on it. when they can fix or cut some thing, they can see on some "new brands" in popular games.

for example - "Chests". everyone love this sh!t in games. so, why not?
Devs can add some repainted skin for bodyparts, like current Elite-skins. Restrict it for buyin by HC or MC (so you can't buy it)

instead of buy this skins, you have a very small chance (like 0.001) win the Chest with surprise inside. than more points you earn in fight, than more chance win the chest. it is mean, every player in match have a chance win chest, but if you play better and have 1st place, u have more %. Also, you shold end the match to got Chest, if you leave - no reward. (and you should be in match more than 3 min., to prevent jumping in matches close to the end and earn some chest)

When you open the chest you can got.
1) with normal chance
- HC bonus (like 100-150)
- XP boost or HC boost (one hour)
- Free Holotaunts (+10)

- unlock some random item/ internal/ weapon on random mech

2) with very small chance
- some MC amount (about 5 MC)
- one body part for random mech
- one body part for random mech in your hangar

3) with very very small chance
- new skin for one mech (it can be leg skin, or arm, or body
- new skin for random weapon on random mech (like Black PN-223 instead red. or heat-cannon with some draw/graffity on a barrel, or even...can't believe that i say this... focking golden weapons) 
- random drone or thrusters
- skin for you drone (like elite cupcake have shark fire-drone, for example)

4) with very very very small chance
- full new skin package (body+arm+leg) for random mech
- some unique camouflage which you can't buy in magazine

5) with very very very rare chance
- full new skin package (body+arm+leg) for mech in you hangar

if you Win reward/skin which you already have, nothing happen, play more matches and win something unique.

---

another thing which you can buy (or win with chest also)

pilot customization. pay some babaji credit, and you got sexy-girl pilot like Layla in your hangar which replace this boring guy with laptop near with your mech.
it can be cool. 
it can be even more cool if you can win it with chest, and other player can't just buy it into magazine. so you can say "see, scrubs, i have so super unique stuff!"

Edited by nepacaka, 05 October 2016 - 02:52 AM.

[ATX22]

another hawken evolution issue - it stuck around balance. because devs don't want do something general changes. like delete scanner or down regeneration (they actually just can decrease HP from dead-orb say, to 30) which kill fun and move next, and don't waste time on it. when they can fix or cut some thing, they can see on some "new brands" in popular games.

for example - "Chests". everyone love this sh!t in games. so, why not?
Devs can add some repainted skin for bodyparts, like current Elite-skins. Restrict it for buyin by HC or MC (so you can't buy it)

instead of buy this skins, you have a very small chance (like 0.001) win the Chest with surprise inside. than more points you earn in fight, than more chance win the chest. it is mean, every player in match have a chance win chest, but if you play better and have 1st place, u have more %. Also, you shold end the match to got Chest, if you leave - no reward. (and you should be in match more than 3 min., to prevent jumping in matches close to the end and earn some chest)

Spoiler

When you open the chest you can got.
1) with normal chance
- HC bonus (like 100-150)
- XP boost or HC boost (one hour)
- Free Holotaunts (+10)

- unlock some random item/ internal/ weapon on random mech

2) with very small chance
- some MC amount (about 5 MC)
- one body part for random mech
- one body part for random mech in your hangar

3) with very very small chance
- new skin for one mech (it can be leg skin, or arm, or body
- new skin for random weapon on random mech (like Black PN-223 instead red. or heat-cannon with some draw/graffity on a barrel, or even...can't believe that i say this... focking golden weapons) 
- random drone or thrusters
- skin for you drone (like elite cupcake have shark fire-drone, for example)

4) with very very very small chance
- full new skin package (body+arm+leg) for random mech
- some unique camouflage which you can't buy in magazine

5) with very very very rare chance
- full new skin package (body+arm+leg) for mech in you hangar

if you Win reward/skin which you already have, nothing happen, play more matches and win something unique.

---

another thing which you can buy (or win with chest also)

pilot customization. pay some babaji credit, and you got sexy-girl pilot like Layla in your hangar which replace this boring guy with laptop near with your mech.
it can be cool. 
it can be even more cool if you can win it with chest, and other player can't just buy it into magazine. so you can say "see, scrubs, i have so super unique stuff!"

 

You're asking for a near equivalent to Overwatch's "loot boxes" for Hawken crossed with Warframe's prime RNG drops?  Why on earth would you do that?!  RNG chests/rewards of any kind for stuff that people want ADDS TO THE GRIND that people perceive a game to have and can work towards making P2W complaints more common.  Basing either the chest drop rate or quality of the drop on how well a player does in a match; you risk making the current pub-stomping / high vs low MMR players problem many times worse than it already is.  You add the problem of people"farming" these loot chests and (for RLD) the job of trying to keep players from taking advantage of the systems (i.e. do you restrict chests to non-custom servers to prevent people from cheating the drop system with passworded servers / kicking/banning better players)? Why pull in the worst aspects of other F2P games that are only good for making "Opening my loot chests" youtube videos where people scream like idiots when they get a rare drop?

[Chaplain5]

I think that unlimited weapon choices would definitely break the game.

 

See, we like mechs to have their unique character. We do! But we don't want the character to be too specific (only having one weapon option), and we don't want it to be too large (all the weapons). The three-weapon system in the PC version gives reasonable flexibility to the mech's character without dissipating that character. 

 

Take the Brawler, for example. (Now, I don't play the Brawler, so please correct me if I'm wrong). The Brawler has character as a Tank. If you have the Flak, it's an up-in-your-fact burst damage Tank. The Point-D Vulcan is also an up-in-your-face Tank, but it's a sustained damage mech now. And with the SA-Hawkins, it's a stand-off Tank.

 

So, character flexibility, but the Brawler is always a Tank. 

 

Now, there are the two original G2 mechs (the G2 Raider and G2 Assault), and a lot of people play those. They're a unique case - highly specific character, hard to master, but devastating in their unique role. They work, because there's only two. They have a real cachet to them - but if every mech in the game was that way, they wouldn't be special.

 

Thanks for the update and the awesome work!

[TheButtSatisfier]

-snip-

 

I hear ya, and I hope Reloaded can pull off what you're describing without messing it up. We'll simply have to agree to disagree on that point.

[nepacaka]

ADDS TO THE GRIND that people perceive a game to have and can work towards making P2W complaints more common.

this is all about customization, it not get you anything except small bonuses (which can help you with HC/exp) or some good stuf like getting unique camo, for example.
if player spent more time in game (and increased game online) it is nothing bad. if player want acquire some reward, he spent some time, even if he not want, reward can be just a bonus.

 

Basing either the chest drop rate or quality of the drop on how well a player does in a match; you risk making the current pub-stomping / high vs low MMR players problem many times worse than it already is.

 

but even if you got last place you still have a chance. it can be slightly difference like between 0,001 and 0,003. it is noticeable.
also it can be the same percentage rate. Or devs just can not saying players how it working and not open code algorythm. so, player just don't know how it working.

pub-stomping - it is all about low online problem.

for example, if current hawken will be 5000, where:
4500 players = nubs with ~1500-1700 mmr
500 players = pro with 2200+ mmr

if you are Pro, and trying play with nubs, the game show you 100 servers with 0 star, and 10 servers with 3 star,
and you can't pull yourself into 0 star lobby, because game not allow you play in these rooms.

if trying jump with "quick play" button and do some pub-stomp, game still not allow you play with nubs, because autobalancer always put you into one of those 10 serv with 3 star.

so, this is not related with pub-stomp anyway.

 

i.e. do you restrict chests to non-custom servers to prevent people from cheating the drop system with passworded servers / kicking/banning better players

 

it does not matter. even if you play on pass. serv you still need play whole match to get reward. and probably if you play with friends, you are not kicking them to find some nubs for stomp. + you should say them pass. 
all of this can be tested, if Devs find a method how you can farming chest on pass.serv, they just can fix it. it is not a problem.
 

How about smurfing?

One of the instrument to prevent smurfing (in long terms) it is mech-tree, and G2. Even if i very don't love current G2 system at consoles. it is actually can help.
First of all, after some time of play, if you try create smurf, you will play at G1 tv against people who have G2 tv, even if they play worse, they actually have some advantages (more hp, faster dodge, more items). yes, i understand that this absolutely not help them survive against cool player, but. maybe it is better than nothing.

At the same time, many people love their accounts with cool stuff. Like i love my acc in hawken, or in warframe. It is boring for me now play on new account, because love my mechs, and i put Alpha-camouflage on they, because tired hear "u cheater, bla-bla-bla!". now nobody tell me this, cuz they see that i'm a cool guy. and obviously, people don't want use cheats on accounts with good stuff, because risk of lose account. (even if you can buy everything, you simply can't buy alpha-camouflage, isn't it?)

I also have one smurf acc (it acually have 2200 mmr, so, it is not a smurf), this account don't have nothing camo, thrusters, or else. But it have unique nicname "recruit0" which switch numbers to random values in every match. it is unique feature, and i love this account. it is fun, and people don't know who you are. do you understand my logic? most of the players cherish their accounts. it is their time, memories, and effort. it is cool when you play in game long.

 

Biggest hawken problem (actually, ?1 problem) - small online.
- matchmaking not working, because small online.
- pubstomping happens - because small online, and game should put you into low mmr lobby because can't find good enemies for you

at current moment, Hawken is all about skill. 
only one thing which game can give you - skill. why you play in hawken? to kill some mechs. or play with another people who also good.

but what if you are "not super good". what interest you should got from game, in which play 40 people and just shred you.
ranking mech? yes, it is interest for some people. like "collect them all". but what you should do when you collect all and still sux when fight with pro?
this is unfunny. nobody want play in game where he just sux.
this way can help support interest to game for +/- average players, who are "not super good", and "not super bad". they buy some mech, got some good stuff, and will love it. it is my opinion.

Anyway, reloaded should find a way, how keep player interest and continue play in game. it is hard to do with player who mostly sux in matches, but love the game (you know, mechs, pew-pew, etc.)
getting some unique stuff can be a purpose for them. and more important that you can't buy it, you can only got it when you playing in game.
 

Edited by nepacaka, 05 October 2016 - 06:53 AM.

[CARLOSPELETO]

 

{...}

 

Oh yeah, we�re also thinking about taking a stab at refreshing some game modes.  We don�t want to do anything drastic, but we do want to get familiar with the code related to game modes so that we may make additional types in the future.  What are some ways you think could completely change how you play, say, the Siege game mode?  Or pick another game mode and comment on that if you�d rather. We�re open to feedback and would like to hear from you.

 

I luv ze codes.

It's the fastest way to get noticeable changes out,

Exercises I would engage in:

- Parametrize:

how easy is it to setup a new map for a given game mode? the ultimate answer is a custom from scratch map editor,

But, any in between pokes should allow to add non-traditional-to-hawken-map-items like actionable bridges and doors (think a giant plasma tube that can be lit up from a nearby control panel, or by a delay function, that destroys any mechs within it, in say, wreckage alternate/upgraded map?)

 

- Performance:

just a bird to keep on your shoulder singing:

where are the game instances, logic, and resources, loading from? 
if I identify and review the assets loading code and start swapping orders (or even assign new/additional order logic) of load like a headless chicken, can i find any slight improvement or code refactoring benefits? this exercise is basically an excuse to do code exploration, it is only profitable if a dev team has access to concise records detailing the findings.

 

- Control:

 

Maps can operate under different game modes, can I bend the logic to enable "game mode swapping"? how about using that to create new *-gedon gameplay, can i mix team siege with co-op robot waves (who enables the AA)?

 

- Explore:

 

Can I add new non playing character logic?

How about setting dynamic spawn destructibles like cute little trucks, not stationary but driving around on the roads, that can get kicked around.

 

In the long run

Proficiency in these areas means I could start thinking about aggregating game modes

- catch the flag
- last man standing
- single player with cut scenes (would require heavy A.I and production overhaul)
 

- Share:

How much is enough?

If I can control the game type logic as a black box, I can have two types of game universe(within a healthy hawken multiverse of server offerings); 

mod and canonical.

 

Where mod are community driven spin offs, while canonical are the reloaded releases, this inevitably leads to a solid market platform for the f2p model

If someone builds a mod called "crazy farm chicken war" replacing all the assets accordingly, that runs on your servers, and it turns into a freaking hit, gaming media will coin the term "hawken based game"


Just thinking out loud i guess

Have fun making hawken great again!
 

[ATX22]

I never said it wasn't just about customizations, since it doesn't matter what you're locking behind the RNG-wall.

To oversimplify, you are proposing the addition of another layer of frustration that will give naysayers / complainers yet another thing to complain about.

This game desperately needs more content, not more ways to limit your access to it. And until RLD fixes Hawken's core infrastructure, gameplay, content, match making, and balance issues.. I just don't personally see the need to duct tape another grind mechanic onto Hawken that will likely be abused in the name of monetization.

[StubbornPuppet]

I also came up with a strange suggestion for a way that I think might fix the main reason I refuse to play plain DeathMatch.

 

I can rarely find a game of DM where two or more players don't just team up and work together to rig the win.  It's damn frustrating.

 

Is there some way that the game could detect "line of sight" between players and put a counter on the time they don't shoot at a player in their LoS... then start to penalize them?

 

Some rough ideas might be:

>Have a player start losing a little health every few seconds that they don't shoot another player who they haven't done a certain percentage of damage after they've spent more than X amount of time is in their LoS, while said player is in their LoS.

 

>Begin reducing a players movement, mobility and turning speed in the same conditions above.

 

>Eh, I dunno... something.

 

It's certain that this is a silly idea, but ANYTHING that could prevent people from teaming up in what is supposed to be a free-for-all would be great.

[MomOw]

I also came up with a strange suggestion for a way that I think might fix the main reason I refuse to play plain DeathMatch.

 

I can rarely find a game of DM where two or more players don't just team up and work together to rig the win.  It's damn frustrating.

 

Is there some way that the game could detect "line of sight" between players and put a counter on the time they don't shoot at a player in their LoS... then start to penalize them?

 

Some rough ideas might be:

>Have a player start losing a little health every few seconds that they don't shoot another player who they haven't done a certain percentage of damage after they've spent more than X amount of time is in their LoS, while said player is in their LoS.

 

>Begin reducing a players movement, mobility and turning speed in the same conditions above.

 

>Eh, I dunno... something.

 

It's certain that this is a silly idea, but ANYTHING that could prevent people from teaming up in what is supposed to be a free-for-all would be great.

 

My 2 cents about Death match :

 

plain deathmatch are not good game modes. At best it's a fun playground.

 

What I've play and was fun so far are :

- duels

- 2vs2vs2vs2 akka "buddy deathmatch" we used to organise at the beginning of KDR training. This mode should be implemented.

(simple rules : friendly fire, no shared radar. sum scores. But voice chat is mandatory)

[nepacaka]

This game desperately needs more content, not more ways to limit your access to it.

 

obviously my idea not stoped with added 10 camo to rng chest.
devs have some thing from start, than added more with time. and added content to (this include mechs and camo/ parts/ thrusters in magazine)

 

not more ways to limit your access to it

 

you are not limited buy something in magazine. i'm talking about things like alpha-camouflage, or cupcake thrusters. nobody can't buy it. it is bad?

 

until RLD fixes Hawken's core infrastructure, gameplay

 

they already listen many good ideas. all what they need choose one direction, give this variant for them "scary good testers" and look, how it working with normal people. if it working good - do it. than listen some feedback from high-tier player and change balance if one thing will be imba in right hand (or average people just not used it in this way) or totally useless.

all what they need - just understand how final hawken should be. test it and implement if it good.
 

content

 

it is all about time. there is now how we can got 10 new camo. we can got 1-2 new camo in one monts (because you need draw camo for all 15 mechs, then more mech, than more camo variant u need to draw), and i the end of year we have +10 new camo. 
the same with thrusters and mechs.
 

match making

 

this problem can't be fixed, because there is no problem with matchmaking algorythm. we NEED more players. and devs should find a way how to attract new players and Keep they in game.
hawken can attract player, but can't hold long time. because after 1-2 day of player leave. they should have a reason stay in game, and skill, not one of things which help attract more players.


1) hawken is hard for average player (consumer). most of weapon are literally unusable if you're not FPS-Genius with inhuman reaction (like heat-cannon or EOK against berseker with AC, it just impossible, or luck, or heavy tactics where you always runaway and trying to cheat him, but only working if you're in A-class)
even controls is hard. 
- aim is hard, crosshair shaking on C-class as crazy when u walking, it is impossible to shoot correct if you not jump or fly. when you landing it is uncontrolabble a second, if you shoot in this moment your rocket fly alot higher. you understand how this really working only when you play some good amount hrs of play.
- many people just can't catch a-class hit-box and he runaway with 10 HP. not because scout super good tactic, just because player can't cope with crosshair.
- insane mech animations + ping, as a result you see scout on bust, you shoot in his head and nothing happen because real hitbox "not there".
- ping and no any mechanism which can help. player with 20 ping literally a god.

- invisible parts of environment which you can see only on Ultra settings, at the same time, many people never play in competitve games with high settings.
- stupid shift+S.
- if you use config, you literally understand that the game with default setting just unplayable and uncomfortable. first thing - cockpit. it shouldn't move at all. defaut shaking should be 0 and it should be "static". default fov should be 110, or minimum 100. return radar back in top-right corner.

2) hawken is not fun.
every game with equal skill opponent is always "tension", because enemy don't want to die so easy, and you can't kill him fast. it is probalby interest, but not fun. it is the same like playing, let say, in MWO. playing in MWO not fun. yes, it have some funny or casus moment, but 99% time it is tension game. The TTK is too high for being fun, and B/C class dodges too short.

 

so, reloaded should fix thing which cause problems and debate for a long time. like scanner, tech, map holes, orblording, ppa-inci, invisible objects
(doesn't matter game is for PC or for PS4, problem is still problem. if PS4 players not find holes in map yet, they find it soon, and some people understand how powerfull scanner is, and than some people increase mmr and start ruine matches for nubs, don't worry, everything is still ahead)

than should think about general gameplay and speed (should this game be for everyone, or be nishe/competitve for players with high reflexes because this game can't exist for both group of people, you should choose one if you want result)

than think about way, how hold player in game, and which mechanism can help with this (and i'm not talking about new mechs or maps)
PS4 and Xbox got 4 new mechs already, but online still decreases as on PC. It is obviously, new mechs not help very match. new mech help keep "old veterans", but not average players (I remind you that it is the usual players support online in the game and keep it alive, not the small amount of veterans)

so, if someone have better idea, how to keep online and increase amount of players, except "new mech and maps", will be good to hear. i suggest some features not related with balance gameplay or everything else. my idea - unique stuff.

i know, maybe i'm talking indistinctly, but i'm trying =)
 

Edited by nepacaka, 05 October 2016 - 08:42 AM.

[Hyginos]

Spoiler

 

 

 

 
console bitrate is console

[ATX22]

We'll just have to disagree on the loot chests.

When it comes to the fun factor for Hawken, I don't think there is an easy solution. All I can say is, during CB, and very early on in open beta, Hawken was a blast to play. As ADH tweaked away at Hawken, that went away for me. Until RLD can figure out how to wow people again with Hawken as happened back in 2012, sprays, skins, holo emotes, new weapon combos, asset flips, and even outright new content will likely amount to a short-lived fixes that will fail to hold on to people's interest.

As far as the new mechs on consoles are concerned, I thought RLD reused old game assets to throw together a bunch of [G]immick2 mechs that ended up behind... an XP/credit grind-wall. One which, if I understand it, is hindered further by the use if a mech tree, similar to WoT.

[nepacaka]

MWO have a high XP/credit wall, and it doesn't stop people to play in it. It is much more grind than hawken. It is actually not a problem as is.
Grind can be good, if you have good target in the end.
You should want to play, and should have purpose to play.

Just ask on question, why u still play in hwk?
For me, first reason is probably gameplay. But since I got all mechs, and several types of one mech with different loadouts, I play less.
Yeah I still play sometimes, but I actually don't have a motivation to play. It was fun sometimes, play against strong players, or play in siege, but now it is not, because I can't play with nubs. I very enrage when they don't do nothing, it is funny but Bots play better than current hawken players.

I actually want return back in 2012. The games was more easy to play before. No comressor, no tech, no stupid inci without overheat, better overheat mechanic (I don't like new one which make 0 heat when u not shoot 3 sec.), more restriction for mech, more weapon spread, more "mech" feeling.
I want simply game, I don't want to be a cyber-athlete to play in hawken.

Edited by nepacaka, 05 October 2016 - 09:55 AM.

[TheButtSatisfier]

MWO have a high XP/credit wall, and it doesn't stop people to play in it. It is much more grind than hawken. It is actually not a problem as is.
Grind can be good, if you have good target in the end.
You should want to play, and should have purpose to play.

 

Most MMOs aren't PvP first person shooters with 10 minute matches either. Long grinds for access to unique, or worse, advantageous equipment that actually impacts gameplay in a meaningful way (weapons, items, mechs, etc) are the lyrics of the F2P deathsong. If that long grind can be bypassed with $ then you have a legitimate P2W case.

 

I'm very okay with having long grinds or drop boxes for unique cosmetics. I couldn't care less what color flame shoots out of my mech ass when I try to fly, but if I got a loot box after a match that contained a complete reskin for a Vulcan that made it both look and sound like the GAU-8A 30mm cannon on the A-10 then I'd be a very happy guy.

[X0X13X0X]

I'd like to say "YES!!!" to customized loadouts in console Hawken. I'd like them the way PC Hawken was a couple years ago when I was playing there: Fixed secondary, Alternate (blue-fee) primary, and a Prestige optional primary at level 5 (Or was it 6? I can't remember). Also internal customization with level unlocks as described in the pilots' career progression.  

 

In addition to variety on the field and the great feeling of getting one's mech "just the way they like it," attaching customization to level progression is excellent incentive for players to stick around and "grind." In addition, balance becomes obviously easier to maintain within this confining framework. 

 

I see some people are talking about allowing any weapon (including secondaries) on any mech. I don't play Hawken on PC anymore, so if you want to do it there, go to. Please don't ruin console Hawken with this. It's such an alluring illusion that unfettered freedom of customization will mean unfettered variety in-game. So alluring that even experienced gamers return to it over and over, despite what they already know from ruined game after ruined game: unfettered customization leads to a stagnant meta, with developers wasting time and energy playing "whack-a-nerf" as competitive players move from one broken OP configuration to the next. Meanwhile, the casual players (whom f2p developers are always trying desperately to retain) are only really free to weary of resistance and conform ("get good" in leetspeak) or --more likely-- get frustrated and move on without spending a dime.

 

Nothing good will come of it.

 

I downloaded Hawken to my PS4 on a lark. I know the snoots will balk, but I like Hawken on console. The controller feels mostly natural, and with the customized control-mapping update, it can only get better. Its good to know the person who bests me is running the exact same system I am. The frame-rate fix has me sticking around and dropping a little cash. Mech loadout customization (with limits and attached to level-progression as I've described) is an essential next step. 

 

As far as other content, I get the feeling that Reloaded is looking to do things on the quick and cheap. How about tournaments for console? "Smashbot Sunday!" Most kills in Co-Op Team Deathmatch between 12am and 11:59pm wins a unique badge, some nice geometry, special cockpit junk, or maybe even a few-hundred meteors? That sort of thing. Tournaments in less popular playmodes can generate interest, and tournaments in general always bring out the competitive players that pvp games thrive on. Tracking players' stats for a day or two and crediting the winner's account shouldn't be too much work.

 

Maps. "I would hate it if we had more maps!" said no Hawken player, ever.

 

If Reloaded decides to take on some serious development, they should consider a long-term campaign in which players can take part in the struggle between Prosk and Sentium.

 

My two cents.

[Silverfire]

I also came up with a strange suggestion for a way that I think might fix the main reason I refuse to play plain DeathMatch.

 

I can rarely find a game of DM where two or more players don't just team up and work together to rig the win.  It's damn frustrating.

 

Is there some way that the game could detect "line of sight" between players and put a counter on the time they don't shoot at a player in their LoS... then start to penalize them?

 

Some rough ideas might be:

>Have a player start losing a little health every few seconds that they don't shoot another player who they haven't done a certain percentage of damage after they've spent more than X amount of time is in their LoS, while said player is in their LoS.

 

>Begin reducing a players movement, mobility and turning speed in the same conditions above.

 

>Eh, I dunno... something.

 

It's certain that this is a silly idea, but ANYTHING that could prevent people from teaming up in what is supposed to be a free-for-all would be great.

 

no thanks I often stalk people in Predator in LoS all the time but don't shoot, that'd be really dumb

 

I don't think you can really legislate this kind of stuff

[StubbornPuppet]

Spoiler

 

 

 

 
console bitrate is console

 

Spoiler

Soo... another Dual Wielding mech, huh?  And is that really an "Ice Gun" that we're seeing there?  Pretty weird... especially for a Dualie.

[JeffMagnum]

And is that really an "Ice Gun" that we're seeing there?  Pretty weird... especially for a Dualie.

 

I think it's a new chassis skin.

[StubbornPuppet]

I think it's a new chassis skin.

 

Oh, that's gotta be it.  Thanks.

I saw the frosty smoke rising from the barrels and then saw the mechs which look kind of "iced" and drew an incorrect conclusion.

[ATX22]

MWO have a high XP/credit wall, and it doesn't stop people to play in it. It is much more grind than hawken. It is actually not a problem as is.
Grind can be good, if you have good target in the end.
You should want to play, and should have purpose to play.

Just ask on question, why u still play in hwk?
For me, first reason is probably gameplay. But since I got all mechs, and several types of one mech with different loadouts, I play less.
Yeah I still play sometimes, but I actually don't have a motivation to play. It was fun sometimes, play against strong players, or play in siege, but now it is not, because I can't play with nubs. I very enrage when they don't do nothing, it is funny but Bots play better than current hawken players.

I actually want return back in 2012. The games was more easy to play before. No comressor, no tech, no stupid inci without overheat, better overheat mechanic (I don't like new one which make 0 heat when u not shoot 3 sec.), more restriction for mech, more weapon spread, more "mech" feeling.
I want simply game, I don't want to be a cyber-athlete to play in hawken.

MWO had it's rough times too, but MW is an established IP with a larger dedicated fan base (MW has just been around alot longer than Hawken).

Yeah, and if Hawken were to become that game again (2012), people would be (hopefully) playing Hawken because it'd be an awesome and fun game with all the extra cosmetics merely the icing on the cake rather than the main driver for people to continue playing.

I don't play Hawken currently, I have been and continue to wait for RLD to get around to adding new content and making their own changes to the game mechanics. The current version of Hawken is just "meh" for me anyway, and I don't feel like wasting time on it if resets and sweeping changes are just over the horizon/"worth the wait"/soon™/2016... great year for... Eh...

[crockrocket]

On the subject of loot boxes

 

As I've said before, I think such a system would be beneficial for player retention

[nepacaka]

Most MMOs aren't PvP first person shooters with 10 minute matches either. Long grinds for access to unique, or worse, advantageous equipment that actually impacts gameplay in a meaningful way (weapons, items, mechs, etc) are the lyrics of the F2P deathsong. If that long grind can be bypassed with $ then you have a legitimate P2W case.

Should I say that except grind MWO have:
- p2w elements, (it is mean, that you Can't buy it with ingame money)
- Insane difference beetwen stock mech, and fully upgraded mech, about 50% effectiveness.
And people play with this, with p2w, with grind, and with donut, and not cry.

They play because mechs and gameplay.

Also, many people don't love some "global mechanics", and hate it every time, and devs say that "wait, and we fix it!", and people still wait several years, and it still not fixed xD

Also, some people still hate new "jumping meta" (hello stupid cat and ppc!), and I too hate this. Because this is stupid mechanics. And ghost heat, which people want to delete alpha-strikes etc. MWO actually have similar problem like hawken, I mean, problem with gameplay which people still don't love, but play, because they don't have alternative.

Edited by nepacaka, 05 October 2016 - 12:21 PM.

[nepacaka]

 
 

what the hell? is there any way how to unseen this? why i open this spoiler!?

on a serious note, if THIS is a camouflage about RLD talking (shield+optical camo), my answer is... no
https://coub.com/view/gorlia


Seriously RLD. did you think that this nonsense look cool? it is totally wasted... you know, atmosphere... design.... oh. i start think that this game will die for me when patch happen. dis is my feedback.

Edited by nepacaka, 05 October 2016 - 01:29 PM.

[StubbornPuppet]

what the hell? is there any way how to unseen this? why i open this spoiler!?

on a serious note, if THIS is a camouflage about RLD talking (shield+optical camo), my answer is... no
https://coub.com/view/gorlia


Seriously RLD. did you think that this nonsense look cool? it is totally wasted... you know, atmosphere... design.... oh. i start think that this game will die for me when patch happen. dis is my feedback.

 

I'm going to agree with Nepa on this.  It looks stupid.  And anyone who wears it is just painting a bright target on themselves - it stands out like a big neon "hey, look at me" sign.

[StubbornPuppet]

On the subject of loot boxes

 

As I've said before, I think such a system would be beneficial for player retention

 

I'd have to disagree, if they use a system of buying keys to unlock the crates and get a random item from in the crate.  Just recently, Rocket League introduced Loot Crates and the same system and it has really, really pissed people off... and made a freaking mess of their forums at the same time, what with 2 out of 3 posts now being about wanting to trade with people or being furious that the system is basically gambling - people just want a way to simply buy the cosmetics they want.

 

But, if it was actually just a "salvage" where you got an actual part for something like sticking in one server for 3 or more matches, etc., then I'm super cool with it.

[TheButtSatisfier]

I'd have to disagree, if they use a system of buying keys to unlock the crates and get a random item from in the crate.  

 

Crock's suggestion didn't include explicit mention of cosmetics being dropped, only that "salvage" should be dropped and could be sold for HC. Whether or not that salvage is equippable in some fashion wasn't clear in the post.

 

I'm in favor of being able to directly buy cosmetics in addition to having a small loot box drop with a chance to unlock a skin in it. Something like how Overwatch worked when I played it a few months ago. Sometimes your lock box has HC in it, other times it's a skin, and so on. Maybe it unlocks a mech you don't already have, or it unlocks a locked weapon on a mech you own. Just a little bit of random goodness to tickle that gambling habit in us all.

 

I should emphasize that I don't want to have a purchasable key for the lock boxes. The lock boxes should be able to be opened as soon as they are given. Real-world money purchases shouldn't be random IMO; if you break out your wallet then you should know exactly what you are buying.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 05 October 2016 - 02:02 PM.

[DallasCreeper]

Spoiler

 

 

 

 
console bitrate is console

That kinda hurts my eyes. No mech should be that bright. 

[Shade__]

Spoiler

 

 

 

 
console bitrate is console

...why is that mech made of lightning... i mean i can dig it in a gold mechs kinda way, BUT WHAT!

[nepacaka]

I'd have to disagree, if they use a system of buying keys to unlock the crates and get a random item from in the crate.  Just recently, Rocket League introduced Loot Crates and the same system and it has really, really pissed people off... 

For clearing.
when i'm talking about crates, i'm not mean nothing about keys. 
i mean system which you just got a random prize, "chest" is a just like animation. you open it free, just by mouse click.
it can be "metal box" or just big text "you win %item_name%". 

not like you win some chests and you should buy 50 key per 5$, no. it is ugly and stupid system, there is nothing similar with "reward".

Edited by nepacaka, 05 October 2016 - 02:37 PM.

[UnclePork]

i don't rly like the current system of g2 mechs, it felt like a somewhat lazy excuse to give players advantage. if anything, i like to see the console version adapting the PC's g2 mech system, where the mechs, aside from similarity of abilities with their respective g1 mech, are a complete reimagine of a g1 mech's playstyle. Also, as someone who too poor to afford anything, i like nepa's suggestion of "loot boxes", giving every player a potential chance to obtain a piece of cosmetics they otherwise have no access to (since most is locked behind paywall).

More weapon choices are also nice, but while having access to all weapons seems fun, i don't think it is necessary, and will destroy a mech's specific role, having 2 to 4 weapons (pc mechs have 3 primary) would bring out alot of build variety, without destroying the mech's role (keep the secondary weapons fixed tho). another idea for weapons is that dual wielders can have more than one weapon to choose from, but changing the primary would change the secondary as well.

im new to the fourms lol, so this is my first time posting

[americanbrit14]

So basically what nepa is saying is we should have more of a drop pod system, not like a CS:GO loot crate system, but more of a "Hey as an added bonus for playing x number of matches you get a chance to get something cool!"

 

From my experience, Fractured Space did this kind of system well

 

For completing 2, 4, and 6 games you receive a bronze, silver, and gold drop pod respectively. 

Inside of the drop pods you can get extra ingame credits, a single match credit boost, a small amount of their version of MC, as well as skins (among crew and Dna for crew but that doesn't apply to hawken.)   The system is sort of similar to the daily reward system we have right now, but far more addictive as it can give you more than just HC.  Such a system would help new players advance a bit faster with the HC bonuses, it would give them a chance to get free cosmetics,  and with the small amounts of MC it would sort of give them more of a reason to put money into the game like "Oh hey i've earned half of the MC i need for this cool skin, i'll just put in $5 for the other half and buy it"

Edited by americanbrit14, 05 October 2016 - 03:13 PM.

[nepacaka]

So basically what nepa is saying is we should have more of a drop pod system, not like a CS:GO loot crate system, but more of a "Hey as an added bonus for playing x number of matches you get a chance to get something cool!"

yes, something like this. i not mean pay tonnes of $ for have a rare chance to got golden rev-GL.
it is just a prize. you won it. you open it. see "congratulations" text and prize icon. and u happy now.

to be honest, i have no idea how it working in CS-GO, because i never play in dis game (last was cs-source). My idea more based on warframe daily lottery (which is also good idea i think. sometimes you win something rare stuff in warframe and it is cool)
 

For completing 2, 4, and 6 games you receive a bronze, silver, and gold drop pod respectively. 

Inside of the drop pods you can get extra ingame credits, a single match credit boost, a small amount of their version of MC, as well as skins (among crew and Dna for crew but that doesn't apply to hawken.)   The system is sort of similar to the daily reward system we have right now, but far more addictive as it can give you more than just HC.  Such a system would help new players advance a bit faster with the HC bonuses, it would give them a chance to get free cosmetics,  and with the small amounts of MC it would sort of give them more of a reason to put money into the game like "Oh hey i've earned half of the MC i need for this cool skin, i'll just put in $5 for the other half and buy it"

 

dat exactly what i mean. you aslo can win, let say, new elite legs skin for you pred (maybe it will be black gritty legs, or red skin with some white stripes, as "making you pred look like nascar racing car with number 8 on a corpus"), and you see this. this is cool. and you buy arms and body for full complect, if you want it "right noaw". or continue play and maybe you lucky and win something else good stuff.

even if you don't want to donate (or you can't) you can grind it, and maybe earn some MC to buy cheapy camo for you mech, and wear it with pride. yes, you're not bring money for reloaded, but you spent time, and increase game online. it is important too.
 

Edited by nepacaka, 05 October 2016 - 03:39 PM.

[Zebanchi]

Spoiler

 

 

 

 
console bitrate is console

I am personally not a fan.

[Silverfire]

So basically what nepa is saying is we should have more of a drop pod system, not like a CS:GO loot crate system, but more of a "Hey as an added bonus for playing x number of matches you get a chance to get something cool!"

 

From my experience, Fractured Space did this kind of system well

 

For completing 2, 4, and 6 games you receive a bronze, silver, and gold drop pod respectively. 

Inside of the drop pods you can get extra ingame credits, a single match credit boost, a small amount of their version of MC, as well as skins (among crew and Dna for crew but that doesn't apply to hawken.)   The system is sort of similar to the daily reward system we have right now, but far more addictive as it can give you more than just HC.  Such a system would help new players advance a bit faster with the HC bonuses, it would give them a chance to get free cosmetics,  and with the small amounts of MC it would sort of give them more of a reason to put money into the game like "Oh hey i've earned half of the MC i need for this cool skin, i'll just put in $5 for the other half and buy it"

 

I can back this.  Fractured Space does this excellently.

[nepacaka]

Guys, i need you feedback.
did you will be really unhappy, if you win prize in hawken and got this camo like "free prize"?
yes, it is free (but you cant buy it from magazine), and it is just repainted elite skin which i draw in photoshop by using 3 instruments, brush, opasity and smooth lighting.

but I'll be damned if it is worse than the "Lighting-shield camouflage" from Hyginos PS4 screenshoot.

actually, professional designer (huh, even school-boy mod maker can do this), can easily made a hundreds camos like this. and better than this, i just do this for example and spent 30 minutes.


 

Edited by nepacaka, 05 October 2016 - 04:40 PM.

[Silverfire]

Guys, i need you feedback.
did you will be really unhappy, if you win prize in hawken and got this camo like "free prize"?
yes, it is free (but you cant buy it from magazine), and it is just repainted elite skin which i draw in photoshop by using 3 instruments, brush, opasity and smooth lighting.

but I'll be damned if it is worse than the "Lighting-shield camouflage" from Hyginos PS4 screenshoot.

actually, professional designer (huh, even school-boy mod maker can do this), can easily made a hundreds camos like this. and better than this, i just do this for example and spent 30 minutes.


 

 

I'd buy it nepa