24 replies to this topic

[DerMax]

Hey peeps,

 

As some of you know, I've played quite a bit of Infiltrator, so I can offer a good insight into why its ability in its current form is trash-tier. I have 800+ hours on Infil and 300+ on Scout, and I can say that Heat Scout is a strict upgrade to Heat Infil, and that is mostly due to the ability and the synergy between Heat and TOW. (Plus, TOW is op.)

 

Now, what are the problems with Infil's ability?

 

1. Any competent player can see you cloaked if you're moving, and you have to move because you have little time due to fuel consumption.

2. Seekers home on you automatically and hellfires can be locked on to you.

3. Scanners reveal you.

4. Preds can see you with their ability.

5. If you pop your ability too far away from the enemy, by the time you're next to them, you're out of fuel, so there's no way to escape (this is partially helped by a fuel converter, but that's not enough).

6. If you pop it too close to the enemy, they'll hear the sound cue and will be ready to burst/prefire you.

7. The ability's fuel consumption puts you on the clock and is very restrictive, which can be frustrating.

8. Heat charge and SAARE uncloak you for whatever dumb reason (thanks Nepa for reminding).

 

For these reasons, the ability's only use is boosting and dodging without being seen on the radar. That's about it.

 

Here's my rework for Infil's ability:

 

1. Seekers and hellfires no longer home/lock on to you.

2. Scanners no longer reveal you.

3. When activated, the ability cloaks you and reduces your fuel regen to zero. It consumes fuel only when you walk, dodge or boost (at a low rate). When you stand still, your fuel gauge remains unchanged. When you have no more fuel, you lose your cloak and the ability cooldown resets.

 

What this change does is it lets the Infiltrator... well... infiltrate. This ability will allow infils to use map geometry to capitalize on the enemy team's blind spots, without being on the clock, get close, and when the bastards least expect it, you strike 'em and run for the hills (e.g. emp + alpha). This implementation has more depth to it, it's more tactical and, in my opinion, more fun.

 

What do you think?

Edited by DerMax, 26 February 2017 - 02:08 PM.

[nepacaka]

What do you think?

 

i think:
1. seekers and HF should lock on you (bacoz if not, you can press F and rocketeer, console-nief, console-G2R, this-new-console-mech-from-c05-update-screenshot just sux even more and can't shoot in you at all. free frag)

2. Scanners no longer reveal you.

3. When activated, the ability cloaks you and reduces your fuel regen to zero. It consumes fuel only when you walk, dodge or boost (at a low rate). When you stand still, your fuel 

 

i still think, the infil ability reason ?1 - hide you from radar, not from enemy eyes (it is mean you shouldn't press it when enemy directly look at you). tecnically, all what should be done, counter scanners when you moving while cloacked. you literally shouldn't be on radar even if enemy look at you, and even 500 scanners shouldn't detect you.

 

edit. i forgot
4. you shouldn't be visible if you heat increasing and you not shoot. the same should be done with console-vytro ability.

Edited by nepacaka, 26 February 2017 - 12:30 PM.

[Elite_is_salty]

As a 700+ hour infil player; amen to this.

[surgat]

no updates, let alone a rework XD ... i love you guys because they keep alive the forum

Edited by surgat, 26 February 2017 - 01:11 PM.

[DerMax]

i think:
1. seekers and HF should lock on you (bacoz if not, you can press F and rocketeer, console-nief, console-G2R, this-new-console-mech-from-c05-update-screenshot just sux even more and can't shoot in you at all. free frag)

Free frag? You lose your cloak when you start shooting, and then the homing returns. Even nief can dumbfire seekers, so no to that.

[WillyW]

My suggestion for the rework, to add to yours, is regarding the cooldown of the Infil's ability.

I think the cooldown should be proportional to how much fuel is left in your tank when the ability is deactivated. For example, if you only use half your tank of fuel, the cooldown for the ability is divided in half. If you only use 25% of your fuel, then you have 75% of the cooldown. 

This will solve the issue that happens if you accidentally double tap the key for your ability, thus having to wait the entire cooldown because of a dumb mistake.

[nepacaka]

Free frag? You lose your cloak when you start shooting, and then the homing returns. Even nief can dumbfire seekers, so no to that.

anyway rockee can't adequate shoot in you even if see you. in theory, let's imagine that infil don't show on radar by scanner. you use cloak behind wall, go to rockee and start shoot in him. it's ok. 

but if you stand in front of rocketeer, he look at you, you just press F and he can't adequate shoot in you just because, at the same moment, all other mechs like salt/ brawler/ bers can.

the same moment when you runaway from rockee/nief. you use cloack, press shift+S and rocketeer can't do nothing. he look at you and cry. well, you know how bad his weapons without guide.
and again, all other mechs can kill you, because see how you hiding. i think it is weird if cloack will be counter several mechs (or weapons like HF/seeker).


for example, if making cloack like you say (no HF guide), will be obviously making the same changes in cloack mechanism for Pred, and Vytro too. It is mean we have 3 mechs which making rocketeer day is badly.

in total, we have a 3 mechs with cloak, and ~5 mechs (i counted console mechs too, i believe in update) armed with seeker or HF, which have a problem with this cloack feature, but raider/ assault etc. still can see you, and kill you without any problems. so, it is really need making a feature which absolutely don't have affect on scariest and strongest mechs in game, but injured only several mechs like rockee or bruiser?

 

edit, some mistakes.
 

Even nief can dumbfire seekers

 

you probably see a situation when/if you playing on brawler with SA, and see enemy infil or pred, which walking far away and going to kill your teammate, and you just start shoot in infil with SA. I want to see how you do something like this with nief without aim. it is difenetely not work. probably only if infil stand in <30m near with you, or don't moving.
what i'm trying to say, yes, nief can dumbfire, but it will have very low effeciency (i think close to 0)

Edited by nepacaka, 26 February 2017 - 03:27 PM.

[Erzunterweltler]

This will solve the issue that happens if you accidentally double tap the key for your ability, thus having to wait the entire cooldown because of a dumb mistake.

 

Well, if somebody screws up his inputs he should take the punishment for it. I personally don't recall double-tapping the ability button accidentally (even though I'm a fuzzy bunny who uses double-tapping for boosting/dodging), neither have I heard from anybody else that this would be a big issue. If you have problems with that you might want to consider remapping your ability to another key.

 

Regarding OP: Wholeheartedly agreed, even though I think Hellfires are a bigger problem than the Seeker in this case, since the lock on reveals your position directly while the pilot spamming the Seeker might have not even noticed that one of them went off to follow the cloaked Infil. I don't think that when a Seeker user spots a cloaked Infil in the distance he should have to rely on dumbfiring them and hoping they don't home for another opponent, for the same reason as the Helix Repair Torch lock on shouldn't be excluded, since a Technician switching to the Secondary mode has probably spotted the cloaked Infil anyway. Also, it should be removed/fixed that sometimes the callsign of a cloaked Infil appears when said Mech is in an opponent's crosshair.

 

Edit: Why the hell is 's c r u b' part of the profanity filter?

Edited by Erzunterweltler, 26 February 2017 - 03:52 PM.

[LaurenEmily]

Nice idea. If only someone actually listened to our suggestions. 

[Amidatelion]

DerMax, I love you but... there is so much wrong with this.

 

Hey peeps,

 

As some of you know, I've played quite a bit of Infiltrator, so I can offer a good insight into why its ability in its current form is trash-tier.

 

Ok, on board so far, definitely one of the weaker abilities.

 

 Heat Scout is a strict upgrade to Heat Infil, and that is mostly due to the ability and the synergy between Heat and TOW. (Plus, TOW is op.)

 

a) how is this relevant to the ability and b) why aren't you running AR, milgescum?

 

 

 

1. Any competent player can see you cloaked if you're moving, and you have to move because you have little time due to fuel consumption.

2. Seekers home on you automatically and hellfires can be locked on to you.

3. Scanners reveal you.

4. Preds can see you with their ability.

5. If you pop your ability too far away from the enemy, by the time you're next to them, you're out of fuel, so there's no way to escape (this is partially helped by a fuel converter, but that's not enough).

6. If you pop it too close to the enemy, they'll hear the sound cue and will be ready to burst/prefire you.

7. The ability's fuel consumption puts you on the clock and is very restrictive, which can be frustrating.

8. Heat charge and SAARE uncloak you for whatever dumb reason (thanks Nepa for reminding).

 

1. If you're in their foremost field of vision, yes. If you're in their peripheral, no. So many goddamn people make this mistake and I can't believe you're one of them. 

2. Not a problem if you're using cover and again, not in their front field of vision. If a random sweep of the shittiest weapon in the game gets you, that's your problem, not the ability's.

3. Agreed.

4. Ehhhhnnn, agreed, but I feel like it's part of the Pred's schtick.

5. Really, a pilot problem, but sure, fuel use could be buffed.

6. Pilot problem.

7. See #5

8. Whole-heartedly agree. The fact that the ability is written to drop on heat generation is dumb, shittily coded and probably a bug. The worst part of this is that the Vytro is coded and balanced with this in mind so I'm not even sure its going to be fixed.

 

 

For these reasons, the ability's only use is boosting and dodging without being seen on the radar. That's about it.

 

Annnnd disorienting people point blank or when breaking the turn cap. Annnnd vanishing in the middle of an EMP because the ability still works during it and the green mess gives perfect visual distortion to cover the shitty stealth. But even without that, you've highlighted an incredibly useful ability - repositioning that, when done right, the enemy team can't do anything about, or even can see coming.  

 

 

Here's my rework for Infil's ability:

 

1. Seekers and hellfires no longer home/lock on to you.

2. Scanners no longer reveal you.

3. When activated, the ability cloaks you and reduces your fuel regen to zero. It consumes fuel only when you walk, dodge or boost (at a low rate). When you stand still, your fuel gauge remains unchanged. When you have no more fuel, you lose your cloak and the ability cooldown resets.

 

1. No. Git gud.

2. Agreed. The reveal that scanners give you is so shitty to begin with, the average team doesn't even know what to do with the information. But I'd rather a scanner rework (like a sweep).

3. While I'm on board with buffs, some questions:

     a. Would fuel converter still work?

     b. What do you mean by "at a low rate?" Like, less than normal boosting? I don't think that's quite kosher.

     c. While I'm on board with the potentially endless ability from no fuel consumption while motionless, do you think this will encourage passive play? For consideration: how the vast majority of players play Pred and fail to use it to its fullest potential.

 

What this change does is it lets the Infiltrator... well... infiltrate. This ability will allow infils to use map geometry to capitalize on the enemy team's blind spots, without being on the clock, get close, and when the bastards least expect it, you strike 'em and run for the hills (e.g. emp + alpha). This implementation has more depth to it, it's more tactical and, in my opinion, more fun.

 

My problem with this is that it is in no way more tactical or even does anything new. The infil already uses map geometry to capitalize on blindspots, allowing for alphas. Being on the clock is an inherent weakness, yes, but also gives it some tension and requires tactical, flexible thinking and approaches. I dislike the fuel problems but I have zero fuzzing issues as it stands playing Infiltrator at a high level. It is in fact one of three mechs I'm comfortable punching above my weight in (the other two being Vanguard and Grenadier). The ability isn't useless stealth like you're making it out to be. Yes, even mid-tier players will see you in the open. No, people will generally not see you when you approach them from an oblique angle.  

 

FFS, hestoned once bitched me out for using Infil in a DM because it consistently let me reposition and hit him when he was weak, and this is a top-tier player who knew it was coming and what to look out for. 

 

In closing, while I'm on board for minor buffs to the fuel loss, I see people's issues with the ability as being "this isn't the stealth I want" rather than "there is an actual problem with the way stealth works." It doesn't work the way people want and they refuse to engage with the way it actually works.

[EM1O]

TL/DR:

In closing, while I'm on board for minor buffs to the fuel loss... It doesn't work the way people want and they refuse to engage with the way it actually works.

ftfy

 

+1

[DerMax]

(I couldn't find a way to properly format the reply, so...)

 

 

 

DerMax, I love you but... there is so much wrong with this.

 

> I wrote this in a couple of minutes, tired after a hectic work day. I do think it is poorly written and poorly thought out.

 

 Heat Scout is a strict upgrade to Heat Infil, and that is mostly due to the ability and the synergy between Heat and TOW. (Plus, TOW is op.)

 

a) how is this relevant to the ability and b) why aren't you running AR, milgescum?

 

> a) It is relevant in that if we want balance, we don't want one A class to be a strict upgrade to another A class in almost every aspect.

> b) AR is much stronger than Heat and EOC, and anyone who runs it on infil has no balls and is an idiot, because with AR zerker is way better.

 

 

1. Any competent player can see you cloaked if you're moving, and you have to move because you have little time due to fuel consumption.

2. Seekers home on you automatically and hellfires can be locked on to you.

3. Scanners reveal you.

4. Preds can see you with their ability.

5. If you pop your ability too far away from the enemy, by the time you're next to them, you're out of fuel, so there's no way to escape (this is partially helped by a fuel converter, but that's not enough).

6. If you pop it too close to the enemy, they'll hear the sound cue and will be ready to burst/prefire you.

7. The ability's fuel consumption puts you on the clock and is very restrictive, which can be frustrating.

8. Heat charge and SAARE uncloak you for whatever dumb reason (thanks Nepa for reminding).

 

1. If you're in their foremost field of vision, yes. If you're in their peripheral, no. So many goddamn people make this mistake and I can't believe you're one of

them.

 

> Don't talk down to a superior infil -- I know my stuff. 2500+ players see me cloaked from a mile away, peripheral or not; I do as well. You don't even need to see the dude: if he's any close (~50 meters), you can hear him walk or boost and adjust your FoV accordingly.

 

> This is not relevant, but with Plastic Hawken cloaked mechs are almost as visible as regular mechs, which kinda sucks.

 

2. Not a problem if you're using cover and again, not in their front field of vision. If a random sweep of the shittiest weapon in the game gets you, that's your problem, not the ability's.

 

> Some maps have minimal cover. But yeah, this isn't that big of a deal, honestly.

 

4. Ehhhhnnn, agreed, but I feel like it's part of the Pred's schtick.

 

> A 2500+ Pred, if not entertained by your teammates, will make it impossible for you to flank or surprise-alpha in a TDM match. Period. If a mech's shtick is to make another mech's ability useless and frustrating, then that's bad design in my opinion.

 

5. Really, a pilot problem, but sure, fuel use could be buffed.

 

> This makes the ability incredibly restricting, which makes it not fun, seeing that almost all the other abilities don't restrict the user (e.g. scout, zerker etc.) It is a pilot problem, but oftentimes you cannot predict your opponent's actions 4+ seconds in advance, and then you can find yourself either overextending or wasting your ability.

 

6. Pilot problem.

 

> Yep.

 

7. See #5

 

> #5 does not address this point. In it, I'm implying the ability's juxtaposition against the abilities of the other A classes, which do not restrict the pilot in any way. The Cloak, however, in addition to the fuel consumption, restricts you in where and when you can activate it without being punished for it. An inferior ability that is more difficult to use is bad design. Just like EOC in its current implementation.

 

For these reasons, the ability's only use is boosting and dodging without being seen on the radar. That's about it.

 

Annnnd disorienting people point blank or when breaking the turn cap.

 

> I am not disoriented by people using the ability near me, nor is Meraple, for example. If I lose the sight of my opponent cloaked, I simply listen to the sound cues of walking, boosting and hovering, all of which are audible up to at least 30 meters away. If I don't hear anything, the opponent is either stationary and is wasting the fuel, or is already far away, in which case whatevs (this happens rarely).

 

Annnnd vanishing in the middle of an EMP because the ability still works during it and the green mess gives perfect visual distortion to cover the shitty stealth.

 

> I don't know what your graphic settings are, but with my settings the visual distortion does barely anything to help the ability.

 

But even without that, you've highlighted an incredibly useful ability - repositioning that, when done right, the enemy team can't do anything about, or even can see coming.

 

> Anyone playing against DerMax sees it coming, at all times. With a competent Pred on the enemy team they see it coming quite literally, because the dude will light me up on the radar for his teammates to see, after which I'm met with a warm and fuzzy prefire on my nose. (Carl, this kills people!)

 

 

Here's my rework for Infil's ability:

 

1. Seekers and hellfires no longer home/lock on to you.

2. Scanners no longer reveal you.

3. When activated, the ability cloaks you and reduces your fuel regen to zero. It consumes fuel only when you walk, dodge or boost (at a low rate). When you stand still, your fuel gauge remains unchanged. When you have no more fuel, you lose your cloak and the ability cooldown resets.

 

1. No. Git gud.

 

> Okay. *sadface*

 

3. While I'm on board with buffs, some questions:

     a. Would fuel converter still work?

     > Sure, why not?

     b. What do you mean by "at a low rate?" Like, less than normal boosting? I don't think that's quite kosher.

     > Boosting would consume fuel at the regular rate PLUS the ability's consumption rate (which is low).

     c. While I'm on board with the potentially endless ability from no fuel consumption while motionless, do you think this will encourage passive play? For consideration: how the vast majority of players play Pred and fail to use it to its fullest potential.

     > I don't think so, but what's wrong with passive play? It's better than yolodiving noobs and airdodging flying monkeys.

 

What this change does is it lets the Infiltrator... well... infiltrate. This ability will allow infils to use map geometry to capitalize on the enemy team's blind spots, without being on the clock, get close, and when the bastards least expect it, you strike 'em and run for the hills (e.g. emp + alpha). This implementation has more depth to it, it's more tactical and, in my opinion, more fun.

 

My problem with this is that it is in no way more tactical or even does anything new. The infil already uses map geometry to capitalize on blindspots, allowing for alphas. Being on the clock is an inherent weakness, yes, but also gives it some tension and requires tactical, flexible thinking and approaches. I dislike the fuel problems but I have zero fuzzing issues as it stands playing Infiltrator at a high level. It is in fact one of three mechs I'm comfortable punching above my weight in (the other two being Vanguard and Grenadier). The ability isn't useless stealth like you're making it out to be. Yes, even mid-tier players will see you in the open. No, people will generally not see you when you approach them from an oblique angle.

 

> I don't care about what people "generally" do, I care about how this ability works at the highest level, because that's how you balance things in any fps game. At the highest level, Infil's cloak does not work well.

 

FFS, hestoned once bitched me out for using Infil in a DM because it consistently let me reposition and hit him when he was weak, and this is a top-tier player who knew it was coming and what to look out for.

 

> Infil's ability in a DM is stupidly powerful because, using it, you can get close to people who are already in a fight, kill both of them and get the juicy XP. I don't understand how this is in any way relevant to the discussion.

 

In closing, while I'm on board for minor buffs to the fuel loss, I see people's issues with the ability as being "this isn't the stealth I want" rather than "there is an actual problem with the way stealth works." It doesn't work the way people want and they refuse to engage with the way it actually works.

 

> I am not "people", though. I've played this mech at the highest level in EU, and I'm still bitching about the way it works, because it's trash compared to the other mech's abilities. It's excessively restricting, difficult to use, it has many downsides, and it's still bad even with all this luggage.

Edited by DerMax, 27 February 2017 - 02:17 PM.

[-Tj-]

I wrote about my grievances about the Infil's cloak almost two years ago here, as well as some time before that, between when we got Ascension and when Reloaded took over (that thread has since been lost with the old forums, unfortunately).

 

Ultimately, I don't really see a huge problem with the Infil's cloak other than the fact that it eats fuel standing freaking still. It really ruined how fun the Infil was to play before this change. Even though most of the time I'm comfortable with the way things are, there are occasions where I want to punch whoever changed it from how it used to be, when it had its own timer not connected to fuel.

 

It makes zero sense to tie it to fuel if it receives no benefits from the connection.

 

Now if, per chance, it received some kind of benefit from the fuel connection, like being able to activate it whenever fuel is available (which would be OP AF), then I'd be more ok with the connection. But it doesn't.

 

If it were up to me, I would revert it back to the way it used to be, where it had its own "charge" that isn't connected to fuel and a slightly longer cooldown, and tweak the numbers from there. The rest of the negatives I can live with... just make it stop consuming fuel, dammit.

 

As for the suggested improvements:

 

 

1. Seekers and hellfires no longer home/lock on to you.

2. Scanners no longer reveal you.

3. When activated, the ability cloaks you and reduces your fuel regen to zero. It consumes fuel only when you walk, dodge or boost (at a low rate). When you stand still, your fuel gauge remains unchanged. When you have no more fuel, you lose your cloak and the ability cooldown resets.

 

1: I don't really mind this, but I think it would be better/more fun if the lock needed more time on cloaked targets. The click-and-sweep just reveals cloaked targets way too easily. This goes for the Pred as well.

2: Yeah, that'd be nice. I think it would be more interesting if the Scanner just alerted, rather than pinpointed the point of entry, though. So still alert, but doesn't show from where. It's annoying AF when I ninja in super stealthily and the enemy is already facing me. It'd be more fun if they were on guard, but didn't know where I was coming from, IMO.

3: I'm not a huge fan of this one. Part of the reason I want the old cloak back is because it had a specific time limit. That time limit became second nature to me, and I instinctively knew how much cloak I had left based on the ticking sound and also my own internal body clock. If the fuel consumption were variable, I think it would be ok for the longer cloak time, but I much rather have something I can get used to time-wise. I can time the current one with a full tank, but it's more difficult when the tank is at any other level.

 

[Nept]

I so knew tj was going to be here eventually.

[-Tj-]

I rarely even visit the suggestions forum these days, but for whatever reason I decided to today. At work. It must be fate.

[nepacaka]

> This is not relevant, but with Plastic Hawken cloaked mechs are almost as visible as regular mechs, which kinda sucks.

 

to be honest, it is not related with plastic. on default low or medium graphichs infil are clearly visible. it is probably hard to notice only if play on high settings with alot of effects. i mean, in 2012 i play without configs and i always see it if infil stand in front of me, it is not because config.
it is also depend on map, for example, bazaar and wreckage have a several places where finding infil is a problem (ok, not a problem, but harder than if you play without config).


several variants from me:

1) stop fuel leaking while you do not move, and decrease fuel leaking to 30% while ability

or

2) make fuel leaking while ability as a "static" (constant value), i mean, don't matter if you always use boost or walk while ability, but you lose the same amount of fuel every second.
with this, even if you have 1/3 of fuel tank, you can use ability to runaway, because you got some sort of "free boost time" while you in invisibility. and you can use it not for hiding from enemy eyes only.
also, you can flanking very fast with this, because you just have time (while you fuel leak) to running with boost all the path to the enemies.

or

3) just delete fuel leaking. ez to coding, just put 0 in formula.

Edited by nepacaka, 28 February 2017 - 01:55 AM.

[DerMax]

to be honest, it is not related with plastic. on default low or medium graphichs infil are clearly visible. it is probably hard to notice only if play on high settings with alot of effects. i mean, in 2012 i play without configs and i always see it if infil stand in front of me, it is not because config.
it is also depend on map, for example, bazaar and wreckage have a several places where finding infil is a problem (ok, not a problem, but harder than if you play without config).


several variants from me:

1) stop fuel leaking while you do not move, and decrease fuel leaking to 30% while ability

or

2) make fuel leaking while ability as a "static" (constant value), i mean, don't matter if you always use boost or walk while ability, but you lose the same amount of fuel every second.
with this, even if you have 1/3 of fuel tank, you can use ability to runaway, because you got some sort of "free boost time" while you in invisibility. and you can use it not for hiding from enemy eyes only.
also, you can flanking very fast with this, because you just have time (while you fuel leak) to running with boost all the path to the enemies.

or

3) just delete fuel leaking. ez to coding, just put 0 in formula.

I'd be fine with 1 or 2, but 3 would make it possible to walk cloaked indefinitely, which is OP.

[nepacaka]

but 3 would make it possible to walk cloaked indefinitely, which is OP.

i mean delete fuel leaking, but make ability work 10-12 sec (or the same amount of time which ability currently have from 100 fuel to 0 in seconds, i just don't remember how much time it now), the same like it was before ascension, and also you can burn your fuel if you use boost while ability.
so, you can walk, or boost free. if you fuel = 0 you still will be invisible while 10-12 sec if you not shoot.

Edited by nepacaka, 28 February 2017 - 03:26 AM.

[lo_spaghetto]

I like your idea DerMax.

 

Personally, I would like infil to have faster walk speed in general. Walking while cloaked is 90% of the time useless...

 

But, with your idea, I wouldn't mind not having faster walk speed. I think it's better. I also saw some other great ideas in here/

[Flifang]

In the current state of PC hawken a lot of things have a soft counter to stealth. It's actually quite odd how it ended up this way. There was a change to the Inf's ability long ago for whatever reason that added fuel consumption and with the addition of the predator and the most likely unintended bug that causes heat generation to lower your cloak it feels like the old dev team had this vendetta against the inf. 

 

I personally love the inf. It was the first mech I ever bought and what sold me on playing the game as I watched my dad play it in early 2013. Although I feel the changes to the inf's ability were unwarranted, I don't think it's broken yet. I think the small mech pool on PC with a few bugs and many counters compared to the total number of mechs is what is giving it trouble.

 

I also think the ability still perfectly compliments the inf's role as an assasin. A lot of us here play at an extremely high level of play, so high that I think sometimes we forget what we should be able to get away with when playing a mech we're particularly adept at. Sure, a well played inf can kill an enemy in the heart of a deathball and get away unscathed, but why could they? Is it because of the player's skill, the enemy team's failing to punish a light mech so far out of position, or is it what the mech is inherintly supposed to do.

 

As much as I enjoy the hype of alpha striking an opponent and stealthing around the corner as my enemies just miss me, it's complete fuzzy bunny that I in no way should have gotten away with. Been playing other games that I'm not that great at for a while and I've been realizing how "streaky" competitive games for me can be. I can play well some days, and other days I get away with being way to risky and end up building extremely bad habits that I have to work twice as hard to overcome later: like diving into the enemy team as a raider all the time.

[lo_spaghetto]

In the current state of PC hawken a lot of things have a soft counter to stealth. It's actually quite odd how it ended up this way. There was a change to the Inf's ability long ago for whatever reason that added fuel consumption and with the addition of the predator and the most likely unintended bug that causes heat generation to lower your cloak it feels like the old dev team had this vendetta against the inf. 

 

I personally love the inf. It was the first mech I ever bought and what sold me on playing the game as I watched my dad play it in early 2013. Although I feel the changes to the inf's ability were unwarranted, I don't think it's broken yet. I think the small mech pool on PC with a few bugs and many counters compared to the total number of mechs is what is giving it trouble.

 

I also think the ability still perfectly compliments the inf's role as an assasin. A lot of us here play at an extremely high level of play, so high that I think sometimes we forget what we should be able to get away with when playing a mech we're particularly adept at. Sure, a well played inf can kill an enemy in the heart of a deathball and get away unscathed, but why could they? Is it because of the player's skill, the enemy team's failing to punish a light mech so far out of position, or is it what the mech is inherintly supposed to do.

 

As much as I enjoy the hype of alpha striking an opponent and stealthing around the corner as my enemies just miss me, it's complete fuzzy bunny that I in no way should have gotten away with. Been playing other games that I'm not that great at for a while and I've been realizing how "streaky" competitive games for me can be. I can play well some days, and other days I get away with being way to risky and end up building extremely bad habits that I have to work twice as hard to overcome later: like diving into the enemy team as a raider all the time.

I feel like in higher level play when all players are woke, I only have fuel to dish out one alpha strike, then I have to GTFO

[Flifang]

I feel like in higher level play when all players are woke, I only have fuel to dish out one alpha strike, then I have to GTFO

On a completely level playing field yeah. It's easy to forget what's reasonably done when at any one time your enemies may be in the 80th percentile for skill while you are consistently in the 10-0.01 percentile.

[FatCoont]

http://imgur.com/KuAlOPK

[Zavier_]

Yeap 100% agree that it's ability need a rework. But heatscout in no way is a strict upgrade to heat infiltrate they both work well in their own situations. I've around 1000+ hour on infil w/ different accs.

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

After enjoying the benefits of a 2 slot fuel converter on the GRR, I might go back to infil and try it on that to see how long I can keep it's special up for.