105 replies to this topic

[airshaman]

Hi everyone , i am new to this game and  like all all of you i have come across smurfs a lot of times , i've been really upset when a guy destroy my fun , my mmr e.t.c ...

I even some times got so upset that the colour of my lanquage was like a crazy expessionistic painting on the wall , i don't like to act like that ...

Mainly i don't like to have any reason to do so when playing a game, so i came with an idea about how to deal with smurfs , all it takes is some time and the co-op of the players ...

 

Here is the idea

 

When we have a SMURF in the server WE ALL QUIT if we find him again WE QUIT AGAIN AND AGAIN , ok this is time consuming but after a while they will understand that there is no place for them to play but to where they belong to ONLY, with their mmr lvl teammates.

 

If you think this is gonna work spread the word to in-game friends , explain what smurfs are , tell the other players to quit and why in game e.t.c in time this will be known in an exponential rate so soon everyone will know, everyone will explain other players what is going on... patience and spread the word if you like my idea.

 

Personaly i am THAT close to uninstall the game ... but i'll give it a try , why miss a game that good as HAWKEN is , we are fighters after all...

 

How to check for a possible smurf?

 

go to : http://hawken.herokuapp.com/

 

enter the player's name in the box and check you will understand when you do it ...

Edited by airshaman, 21 August 2015 - 06:53 AM.

[Guns_N_Rozer]

not only in Hawken , everygame ( i played some game games, i saw smurf ) have this problem .u can take this as a training say like - if u put your self against a good pilot u can learn how to play  .

 

this problem will never end the world .

[Merl61]

The real solution to smurfing? UNLOCK THE FUZZING SERVERS IT'S NOT THAT HARD COME ON RELOADED SHOW THE COMMUNITY THAT YOU ARE WILLING TO TRY NEW THINGS AND WORK WITH US. JUST DO IT FOR A WEEK PLEASE. That's all I ask. 1 week, and see what happens to the servers.

[Rainbow_Sheep]

I feel like I have stumbled into buzzfeed all of a sudden

[Anichkov3]

I have suggested something, but in another topic. Keep track of k / d for beginners. Newcomer in the game may not have k / d higher than 3 (for example) for the first 30 hours of game play.

Now few people in the game. Therefore, you can select "suspects" in the list, and developers can watch a little bit of "career development". And especially for a particularly suspicious should watch "the observer mode."

What should I do with them? Raise them to their top MMR to 2300. If it is really serious beginner (or just another narcissistic smurf) he can have on this rating to find the place. Either he is better or worse than it is.

This approach does not affect the players who create the Smurfs to practice in unknown mechs or something else.

[LaurenEmily]

Created my first smurf ever a couple of days back, after playing for about 8-9 months now. Why ? because there's no freaking games anytime anymore. Way too frustrating to waste ages trying to get a decent game, then after that everyone either leaves it or all the 'high tier' people are spread across multiple servers, none of which i can even access without Queue-gambling.

Edited by (KDR) LaurenEmily, 21 August 2015 - 02:42 AM.

[Anichkov3]

Created my first smurf ever a couple of days back, after playing for about 8-9 months now. Why ? because there's no freaking games anytime anymore. Way too frustrating to waste ages trying to get a decent game, then after that everyone either leaves it or all the 'high tier' people are spread across multiple servers, none of which i can even access without Queue-gambling.

And what do you now have? Continuous enjoyment of victory over the beginners?

Well done! What else to say! Perhaps you can say something else: 

You no longer have the right to speak on the theme of matchmaking and balance games. Because it is like you and destroyed the game completely.

[SS396]

^ the dudes gotta point.

 

Another thing is with everyone smurfing, teams are more unbalanced due to fuzzy bunny misrepresented mmr values, and everyone who isn't smurfing suffers because the people that SHOULD be available because they were in the same MMR bracket are not online, they are down in 1300 MMR lobbies pummeling noobs for funzies.

 

So GG, #blameyourself.

[HHJFTRU]

Welcome to the forum, Airshaman,

this is indeed annoying and it happens often, but please find out how to overcome the frustration and keep playing. Not for the MMR (yes, which can be destroyed by an 1250 MMR smurf) and for the wins, but for personal improvement, gaining experience with different mechs and weapons, whatever, you name it.

Feel free to add me as friend although I can't teach you much since I'm not an advanced player, but maybe we can play some fun matches together.

[LaurenEmily]

No i don't enjoy stomping beginners, but it won't be long until i get to the 2000~ range where i aim to be. There's no real 'stomping' going to happen after that since those players are already decent enough.

[MobiuSRIT]

Well, if good players are using alt accounts to wreck my MMR, that just means I won't ever run into the problem of having it too high and not finding games.  Looks like I win even when I'm losing.

[Hyginos]

I don't understand where people get the idea that there is a cabal of skilled players who laugh maniacally while stomping through low MMR servers. It seems to be a failure to understand that:

• Just because a player is stomping a server does not mean its a smurf. MMR variance can be very wide with the the population that currently plays, and people's definition of "stomping" seems to be fairly generous at times.
• smurfs that do well enough can join 2000 mmr servers in about 9 games (note that "well enough" in this case means MVP by like 50-60 points. It doesn't take much)
• Out scoring a server by 100 points is actually not that hard. A player who comes in with some previous FPS experience will get boosted quite a bit by underdog bonus. I say this because players I have introduced to the game have managed this without any training from me.
• It is not malicious. It is not a conspiracy. They are not out to get you.

Ultimately, ragequitting a server because you think someone is on a smurf isn't going to really do anything. Everyone is just going to drop back into the same queue anyway.

[Aregon]

This is a subject that you really can`t easily get to a good conclusion on, as while high tier players should be allowed to play the game too, it will affect those with lower MMR pretty badly, which may also affect the possibility to let new players enjoy the game in their league, because lets be serious, getting your ass handed to you on a spear and then get that spear pushed into your face so close you can taste it, it is not tempting to play again.

[Erzunterweltler]

And what do you now have? Continuous enjoyment of victory over the beginners?

Well done! What else to say! Perhaps you can say something else: 

You no longer have the right to speak on the theme of matchmaking and balance games. Because it is like you and destroyed the game completely.

 

That's nonsense, she didn't say anything about how she plays against beginners. Maybe she only uses Mechs that are comparatively difficult to play like EOC Raider, G2 Raider or BattleTech? Maybe she uses her Primary/Secondary Weapon only? Maybe she doesn't use any Items/Internals in those low MMR regions? We don't know, that's why it's very difficult to judge.

 

Also, that people create Smurfs only to stomp beginners is complete bs. Nobody enjoys that unless that person has something to compensate. Also, the MMR system puts smurfs relatively fast into their true MMR region again due to Underdog Bonus.

 

Why shouldn't she have any right to speak when it comes to an issue she has got trouble with? Waiting three minutes to be put into a server, which many people leave quickly afterwards or which is completely empty from the beginning, that's not amusing at all, it sucks up 75% of your time and it gives players the feeling that they need to smurf. It has been mentioned many times already, just unlock the servers. You have to fight the cause of a problem, not the symptoms, otherwise the problem will never disappear.

[CraftyDus]

My smurfs are all the same mmr as my "main" (the account I play the least).

 

Playing any of my accounts doesn't unfairly affect anyone else at all.

 

This premise that My smurfing is to stomp lower skill levels is false.

 

The premise that My smurfing is the only way to get a game is not true.

 

The idea that losing a match is somehow unfair, betrays an underdeveloped expectation of outcomes in playing a game.

 

My accounts are not hurting you, and are none of your business.

[Kindos7]

My accounts are not hurting you, and are none of your business.

Ban Dusty Craft pls, his smurfs killed Herken.

[nepacaka]

mmr shouldn't depend from "played time" and "total player experience". problem solved.

 

My smurfs are all the same mmr as my "main" (the account I play the least).

 

but what is the point to create them (smurfs)? yep, your mmr the same. why you need 10 accounts if you can play on one and have each mech what you need or even all on one account? :D

 

for example i have a several accounts in world of tanks, but only because in WoT slots for tanks are limited. ie you can not have 20-30 tanks if you not pay money. i'm not pay, so i just have 3 accounts because all my tanks do not fit on one account.

 

But in hawken you can have unlimited slots, so, i actually don't know why people do this.

Edited by nepacaka, 21 August 2015 - 05:48 AM.

[Sp3ctrr]

Solution;

 

git gud

 

Spoiler

MOST HELPFUL THREAD ADDITION

[hoghead]

.

 

Edited by By by, 19 December 2015 - 07:27 PM.

[hellc9943]

Ban Dusty Craft pls, his smurfs killed Herken.

Dusty Craft and smurfire, the cancer of Hawken.

[airshaman]

ok let's be simple ,

 

smurfs in the server?

 

we explain quicly to the other new players what a smurf is , and why to quit

 

hopefully most or all other players quit

 

we meet again next game we quit again

 

and again  and again

 

we don't play with these people .... plain and simple we don't have a good time?  they don't have a good time too.

 

IMAGINE THE FUN TO KNOW THAT SIMPLY BY QUITING THESE PEOPLE ARE SIMPLY LEFT ALONE

 

and DRAFTY if your account is messing with my game then it is my concern complain to the developers if you don't find servers to play , not my problem !

Edited by airshaman, 21 August 2015 - 06:47 AM.

[Massive_Assailant_Stingray]

It's kind of crazy how MMR and other ranking systems have lead players to believe that they're not good enough to play with certain other players. It's like MMR doesn't just set up barriers, but enforces those barriers and stagnates progression through the players psyche. I don't even know how to really articulate what a problem that line of thinking is. But this is just the first time I've seen one of these posts and thought, "wow, how bizarre".

[Aregon]

It's kind of crazy how MMR and other ranking systems have lead players to believe that they're not good enough to play with certain other players. It's like MMR doesn't just set up barriers, but enforces those barriers and stagnates progression through the players psyche. I don't even know how to really articulate what a problem that line of thinking is. But this is just the first time I've seen one of these posts and thought, "wow, how bizarre".

The fun part is, the MMR difference between people may not allow you to join your friends to play a game. Always fun.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

Why is everybody so goddamn stupid?

Merl has it right, that's all there is to it.

[Silverfire]

It's crazy how my smurfs are nearly the same MMR as my main.  They don't affect any newbies.

[airshaman]

Well, if good players are using alt accounts to wreck my MMR, that just means I won't ever run into the problem of having it too high and not finding games.  Looks like I win even when I'm losing.

to tell the truth you have a point here , i'll give you

that ...

 

the problem is i can't develop my skill with a very high lvl enemy ...

Edited by airshaman, 21 August 2015 - 07:31 AM.

[Hyginos]

the problem is i can't develop my skill with a very high lvl enemy ...

 

Speaking as someone who has actually made the journey from garbage to pretty OK (at least numerically) I can tell you that the exact opposite is true.

[MobiuSRIT]

to tell the truth you have a point here , i'll give you

that ...

 

the problem is i can't develop my skill with a very high lvl enemy ...

I'm a new player and while I've read the forums, I don't know the long history of what came before what Hawken is right now.  However, I'm really not too concerned about any of this.  

 

From a new player perspective, I get about a quarter of matches where the score is 40 to 6 or some other blow out like that.  Those aren't fun.  It usually seems like a single good player (sometimes two) is destroying everyone -- however I have no data or examples to substantiate that.  I love the matches where the kill counts are close.  That's what I consider good "balance".

 

If that means having uneven player counts on teams to achieve that, great.  Some sort of summary of MMRs as the formula?  Sure.   I think low skilled players and high skilled players can play together if the teams work out.  I don't have any idea on how to achieve that, but it seems that all this discussion on multiple accounts and MMR levels could be wholly irrelevant.

 

I think the biggest issue to gameplay might actually be new player retention (I found this fun chart while poking around: http://home.xshade.c...l-distribution/-- this seems interesting to me).  A bunch of the matchmaking issues might go away if there was simply a larger player base.

 

Again, I'm a new guy, so take my perspective with a grain of salt.

[Amidatelion]

I'm a new player and while I've read the forums, I don't know the long history of what came before what Hawken is right now. However, I'm really not too concerned about any of this.

From a new player perspective, I get about a quarter of matches where the score is 40 to 6 or some other blow out like that. Those aren't fun. It usually seems like a single good player (sometimes two) is destroying everyone -- however I have no data or examples to substantiate that. I love the matches where the kill counts are close. That's what I consider good "balance".

If that means having uneven player counts on teams to achieve that, great. Some sort of summary of MMRs as the formula? Sure. I think low skilled players and high skilled players can play together if the teams work out. I don't have any idea on how to achieve that, but it seems that all this discussion on multiple accounts and MMR levels could be wholly irrelevant.

I think the biggest issue to gameplay might actually be new player retention (I found this fun chart while poking around: http://home.xshade.c...l-distribution/-- this seems interesting to me). A bunch of the matchmaking issues might go away if there was simply a larger player base.

Again, I'm a new guy, so take my perspective with a grain of salt.

CongratuFUZZINGlations you have shown more sensitivity, awareness and critical fuzzy bunny thought than 99% of scrubs.

Holy fuzzy bunny you're my new favorite scrublet.

Edited by Amidatelion, 21 August 2015 - 08:17 AM.

[Meraple]

hey you know what's fun

 

when the only 2k+ server in eu is of 2300, it's still out of my mmr range and it has 1 spot left that gets filled before i can queue to join because it's out of my fitness range

happens all the time and it's a joy

 

lol

[Anichkov3]

 

It's kind of crazy how MMR and other ranking systems have lead players to believe that they're not good enough to play with certain other players. It's like MMR doesn't just set up barriers, but enforces those barriers and stagnates progression through the players psyche. I don't even know how to really articulate what a problem that line of thinking is. But this is just the first time I've seen one of these posts and thought, "wow, how bizarre".

I do not understand your words. You want to say that the players who managed to play the game 1 hour will fight on equal terms with the player who has played 1,000 hours (I gave playing time as the most obvious indicator of experienced players; certainly there are lots of other parameters that are already characterize the a skill player)?

 

I see that here the are some absolutely do not understand the need for such an indicator as the MMR. This aggregate parameter that reflects your skill games. MMR does not depend directly on your "time in the game." MMR depends solely on your effectiveness of in the games. Of course those who do a lot of play and play effectively. These people will has the best rating MMR.

 

I have said many times and repeated again. If you want to change something. Then make an offer, "as it need to change." And many prefer to simply whine that they all bad. You're already are adults, right?

 

 

Speaking as someone who has actually made the journey from garbage to pretty OK (at least numerically) I can tell you that the exact opposite is true.

People just want to play! If you want to you a held a "training" - that add to a private server, and though there train yourself to nausea.

I'll probably open secret. But the game is played by people who absolutely do not speak English. Of course there are geeks who will say: "learning English". And you're absolutely "no right". The game is international and is available to all players in the world. You do not like it? I'm sorry that you are so imbued with "Anglo-Saxon propaganda of superiority."

[Nept]

Speaking as someone who has actually made the journey from garbage to pretty OK (at least numerically)

 

A BOLD CLAIM.

 

 

 

 

 I'm sorry that you are so imbued with "Anglo-Saxon propaganda of superiority."

 

Lmao.  Where did that come from?

Edited by Nept: Lord of the God-Kings, 21 August 2015 - 08:28 AM.

[Anichkov3]

I want to remind all of higher level players about my "suggestion ?4".

 

 

https://community.pl...fix/#entry54571

 

 

Please note. As a few people have decided to support this suggestion. Do you know why? Because people like to play the Smurfs and stomp newbies.

By the way, since 2200 the boundary was proposed only as an example; maybe better to choose the border in 2100. But it is better to analyze the developers. They can see exactly how many players has a rating of more than 2100.

Edited by Anichkov3, 21 August 2015 - 08:34 AM.

[Amidatelion]

I want to Do you know why? Because people like to play the Smurfs and stomp newbies.

OH MY GOD HOW HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND THAT MOST PEOPLE DONT SMURF TO STOMP THEY SMURF TO BE ABLE TO FUZZING PLAY A GAME AT ALL.

Edited by Amidatelion, 21 August 2015 - 08:38 AM.

[StubbornPuppet]

There is nothing to be done to stop people from creating alt accounts.

 

There is no unified reason for why different players create them - some for good reason, some for bad.  It is unfair to pass judgement on all who do it.

 

Creating alt/smurf accounts has both benefits and detractors every time:

It is good for highly skilled players to be able to find matches - they are the benchmark standard by which all players will learn from and strive to be more like.  If you don't play against them once in a while, you will never learn to see what they are doing that makes them better than you.  We all need them to be there, for many reasons, including exposing where a particular weapon, internal or mech can be used in a way that breaks the balance.  It makes Hawken a better game in the end.

 

However, even when a highly skilled player starts an alt account for perfectly just and noble reasons, there is a decent period of time where they are wreaking havoc on their way up the MMR ladder to reach the same level as their main/other accounts.  There's no way around that and their just being in the server is almost guaranteed to lower the MMR of every other player in that match.  And it does create an imbalanced team.  It doesn't last forever, they're eventually back up to their accurate rating... but then they will have trouble finding matches again, or decide they'd like to try something different... and they create another alt/smurf account... and the process begins again.

 

The only thing I can think of to do is to build in means of discouraging creating alt accounts combined with means of allowing highly skilled players to find more matches.

 

We need more players is really the end-all of the problem as it currently is.

Beyond that... there are a ton of topics here that express some other, more labor intensive, developer side solutions to discouraging smurfing.

 

I personally find the notion that we should (and expect others to follow us) rage against smurfs, call them out and then quit games just because they appear to be even more insulting and unfair than most of the bad they might cause.  It's judgmental and immature.

[Aregon]

OH MY GOD HOW HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND THAT MOST PEOPLE DONT SMURF TO STOMP THEY SMURF TO BE ABLE TO FUZZING PLAY A GAME AT ALL.

Yes, most. However there is a minority hurting them all.

[CraftyDus]

 

and DRAFTY if your account is messing with my game then it is my concern complain to the developers if you don't find servers to play , not my problem !

 

 

 

I am able to find servers no matter what account I'm playing, they all are level 30 and similar mmr.

That was never a motivation for creating them.

 

 

 

I am not required to display an extenuating circumstance for creating multiple gaming accounts, other than it suits my fancy.

I need nobody's permission.

 

 

And nobody is entitled to an explanation justifying my whimsy any more than they need to be included on determining how many automobiles, guns, shoes, or jars of toenails I collect and lovingly maintain.

 

 

 

 

My accounts have not, do not, and never will affect you in any way.

 

They are mine. They are not yours.

 

I will enjoy them. You will tolerate them.

 

 

If you can't accept that, I invite you to eat a big box of dillpickle and cry me a river.

 

Behold the garden where I grow all the fuzzybunny I give , and see that it is barren.

 

[nepacaka]

OH MY GOD HOW HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND THAT MOST PEOPLE DONT SMURF TO STOMP THEY SMURF TO BE ABLE TO FUZZING PLAY A GAME AT ALL.

 

i actually a little do not understand, why you can't play on main acc? i mean, you can use "quick play" button or connect to your friend, even if you mmr is over9000. (or start match and send some invites)

 

quick play still ignore mmr, so, people can stomp nubs even without smurf. sometimes i play in DM, and i jump into the game with 1400 players =/

smurf or not, i'm connected to they because stronger players not play right now.

 

 

I need nobody's permission.

 

i don't know about hawken rules, but in many online games it is restricted and you can be banned for this. but of course it is obvious that no one checks it. devs can banned some account only if someone tell about it. or if player trying to sold his alt-accounts for real money and devs see it (in chat, for example)

Edited by nepacaka, 21 August 2015 - 10:04 AM.

[DeeRax]

^That's really it, though. People can have multiple accounts if they want. For any reason they want. It's their decision, it's their business. No justification required, there's nothing you can do about it. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD.

Also... OP blaming smurfs for their own uncontrollable temper? LMFAO. ...Its an online competitive video game. Smurf or not, ur gonna get stomped sometimes. You really just have to learn to deal with it and move on. Like, if I personally find myself get salty during a game (It happens), that's my cue to just not play Hawken for awhile. I can certainly understand the frustration of getting stomped repeatedly, but still, smurf or not, it's just going to happen sometimes. I get stomped all the time. Sometimes I get pissed, usually I just shrug & carry on. Sometimes I stomp other folks, too. It's not out of some malicious desire to bully them, I just play the game.

The main reasons smurfing even seems like the the blight that it actually isn't:

A) The servers being locked. Seriously, just let anyone join any server they choose, I'm almost 120% sure things will work themselves out to a large degree. I know new player experience/retention is important, but that doesn't mean the devs should ONLY cater to that. Lo & behold, higher MMR people wanna play too, who would of guessed? I don't like the idea of newbies having to be "sheltered" from better players, as if them being better automatically makes them abusive to new players or something. Also, shitheads will be shitheads, regardless of skill, or # of accounts.

 

B) The very small number of people who currently play the game . This makes repetitive smurfstompstreaks seem more common. I'd bet more players would "dilute" this occurrence, for the most part. But until then...

tl;dr: the rage is real.

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 21 August 2015 - 10:11 AM.

[ticklemyiguana]

i actually a little do not understand, why you can't play on main acc? i mean, you can use "quick play" button or connect to your friend, even if you mmr is over9000. (or start match and send some invites)

 

quick play still ignore mmr, so, people can stomp nubs even without smurf. sometimes i play in DM, and i jump into the game with 1400 players =/

smurf or not, i'm connected to they because stronger players not play right now.

Yes. I, as a player in NY, want to connect to historically speaking, awful, LA servers. Because that's what happens in quick play. I don't want to deal with the wait. I don't want to deal with not knowing which server I'm going to get, I don't want to deal with the general inconvenience of any of that.

 

I don't want to be punished for being good. I want to be able to pick a freaking server, and join it.

 

That being said, my reasons for creating alt accounts are usually things like anonymity, playing on strictly European servers, playing strictly drunk and only using things like EOC raider, following Amid around in various accounts that he has no idea of and targeting him specifically, and just in general, the fun of going through Hawken one more time.