105 replies to this topic

[nepacaka]

B) The very small number of people who currently play the game . This makes repetitive smurfstompstreaks seem more common. I'd bet more players would "dilute" this occurrence, for the most part. But until then...

 

i remember time when hawken start, and hawken don't have matchmaking and rating at all. you just press play, and go in fight. it was awsom time.

players always play 6vs6 in every match, and nobody leave from fight :D

you can find game instantly, no need to wait. just kill someone and fun.

 

i don't know why, but old system without this "mmr tolerance sh!t" working good for me. peolpe just play. it was awsom...

[nepacaka]

Yes. I, as a player in NY, want to connect to historically speaking, awful, LA servers.

 

it is easier on EU, cuz i have the similar ping on all serv +/- 20. so, i just not thinking about it.

[Massive_Assailant_Stingray]

I see that here the are some absolutely do not understand the need for such an indicator as the MMR.

 

Yeah, to be honest I don't understand.

 

Honestly without MMR locks high tier players would all gravitate towards specific servers, and those who aren't high tier, but wish to play in high tier matches (either to play with friends, or gain experience) would gravitate there as well. Basically an entire subset of the community that is currently dealing with MMR locks and bad servers would have the free opportunity to play together instead of being lumped in with people who aren't after those same play styles or goals.

 

This would significantly reduce smurfing and players would start to learn who's who and what individuals are capable of. Top that off with an in game option to see who's on a server before connecting to it (a common feature in every MP video game since forever) and all players would easily be able to find the games that will provide the best experience for them.

 

As for new players, one reason that "smurfing" is so bad for them, is because it's often one or two smurfs they run across. That gives them the picture that these players are godly at this game, untouchable, or potentially they may assume cheats are in use. If new players had opportunities to experience a server full of competent to high tier players, they would gain a better understanding for how the game works, what mechs and individual players are capable of. Because right now there's a transition that's practically night and day, where you go from playing on servers where people practically (or literally) stand still, to playing on servers where people have a grasp of the mechanics.

 

If new players still can't cope with that, and rage quit due to being stomped, well I'm sorry, but it's actually the games fault. Depending on what your gaming history is like, almost any new game a player gets into they're likely to get stomped all over until they learn the game. But players stick with the beat downs because they like the game and they have visible goals to look forward to. As in "man I'm getting stomped, but look what that guy just did, that's cool as, I want to be like that". If players don't get that sense out of Hawken, it's because Hawken is either a bad game, and/or does a poor job showing new players what the game is like once you've gotten the mechanics down.

 

Remove the MMR lock or don't. Either way it's pretty clear what really needs addressing is in-match team balancing. Stop fiddling with the bloody lock range, finicking up and down like it's some careful procedure of finesse. Take a hard look at team balancing, so that even with a wide MMR spread, a somewhat balanced game can occur.

Edited by Massive_Assailant_Stingray, 21 August 2015 - 11:41 AM.

[nepacaka]

About "game faults". It is actually not a game fault. Players who can't deal with lose and rage quit, probably not a good players in any shooter game. They lose everytime and not a target audience of this game. It is problem of people, not a game.

[StubbornPuppet]

i remember time when hawken start, and hawken don't have matchmaking and rating at all. you just press play, and go in fight. it was awsom time.

players always play 6vs6 in every match, and nobody leave from fight :D

you can find game instantly, no need to wait. just kill someone and fun.

Well, that worked better back then because all players had started about the same time and had been playing about the same amount... and there were fewer players.  As more players were added, they were just starting and nothing was keeping them from instantly getting crushed by people who had been playing a lot longer.  I think the game needed the system they put in place... and it worked pretty good until population started to drop, which created an even larger divide between skill levels.

 

I find a lot of wisdom in your other comments, nepacaka, about how "if your alt accounts are the same MMR, and you have unlimited slots... why?" and "since anyone can find a match, suitable fitness or not, by just using matchmaking queue, how are people having trouble finding a match?"

[StubbornPuppet]

 

 

Remove the MMR lock or don't. Either way it's pretty clear what really needs addressing is in-match team balancing. Stop fiddling with the bloody lock range, finicking up and down like it's some careful procedure of finesse. Take a hard look at team balancing, so that even with a wide MMR spread, a somewhat balanced game can occur.

I think this is only half right:  The "teams" may still be balanced, but the lower skilled players will still get completely ruined by the high skilled players.  In fact, it makes it even easier for the hypothetical high skilled bully because they can play it like a vulture who just follows their own low skilled teammates around watching for radar blips and then swooping in for the finishing blow.  Regardless of which "team" wins, half of the players on both are having a cruddy time.

[Meraple]

"since anyone can find a match, suitable fitness or not, by just using matchmaking queue, how are people having trouble finding a match?"

when the only 2k+ server in eu is of 2300, it's still out of my mmr range and it has 1 spot left that gets filled before i can queue to join because it's out of my fitness range

I'll give you a step-by-step explanation of my experience:

- 2600+ player queues up for a 2300-server with a few slots, or sometimes just a single slot

- Those slots usually get filled before the queue drops him in there

- The queue then drops him into <2000 servers

I can't manually join those servers because they're out of my MMR range, which is why I queue up.

Lately I've been smurfing alot more because of it.

Edited by (KDR) Meraple, 21 August 2015 - 12:27 PM.

[DM30]

Yes. I, as a player in NY, want to connect to historically speaking, awful, LA servers. Because that's what happens in quick play.

 

1000 times this. LA is the only server location in the US where I get horrible performance (all the rest range from 'okay' to 'pretty good') but Quickmatch absolutely LOVES putting me there for some reason. (I live in the east side of Canada for context). If I were able to pick a serer, I would never have to deal with that.

 

I don't use smurfs, but the frustrations listed by other players here are things I have definitely felt. A little while back I queued for Any mode because nothing was open to me. Herokuapp said there were a few games available around the 1600-1750 MMR range (which admittedly still isn't a very good match for a player that's sitting in the 2380-2400 range), and what does Quickmatch do? After a 5 minute wait it puts me in an empty Deathmatch server with a 900 MMR player. I didn't even know that MMR went below 1000 to be honest, and because I couldn't pick a server myself I had to put myself at the mercy of a system that thought that THIS matchup was a good idea.

 

(I left immediately, by the way, because there's nothing remotely fair or entertaining about mauling someone 1500 MMR points below me).

 

tl;dr -- I understand why people use smurf accounts even if I don't do it myself, and trying to organize people to collectively shun them because of the stereotype that smurfs are just evil people out to ruin your fun is a bit on the extreme side.

Edited by DM30, 21 August 2015 - 12:40 PM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

, following Amid around in various accounts that he has no idea of and targeting him specifically

 

OMG.  I *thought* I was the only one.

[Anichkov3]

Very strange approach. Ie you want to say, yes, please do Smurfs?

You are in principle are not able to to realize that when a smurf in the match: The match is impossible to balance?

I noticed some urge to abandon the MMR. Can you tell how you will be divided into teams? In alphabetical order? Or the length of the name of the pilot?

Oh, No. We also have an indicator as accuracy hits in the game. Let's use accuracy of hits in the game? Oh no, we're not shooting gallery (although there are some players, such as Zoke), need to change the location. Hmm. So there is a tactical element. It can be considered as steps made by the player in the game? Hmm, probably not. ABOUT! Idea! or may be the amount of time in a game? Probably neither. What do you think, how to divide the players on the team without MMR?

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

To the OP:

 

Life isn't fair, Princess.  Anyone who says otherwise is trying to sell you something.

[hoghead]

[HorseHeadProphet]

Smurfing is not going to stop in this or any other game. Wrap your brain around it. These suggestions like "Hay guise let's all agree to quit the game when a smurf shows up! How fun!" Man, cut the pill in half. That's not going to happen.

 

I say unlock the servers. I just spent 20 minutes or so trying to find a game that I could join, that was located on my side of the continent. There are dozens of "disabled" servers near me that I would pick- were it not for mmr restrictions. I'm barely over 2100 btw.

 

What about set up 'free-range' type servers which are unlocked? A few in each region? Or make servers for beginner to mid players - perhaps sort by pilot rank? And put bots in the server that get removed as human players join, to make it easier to start a game in a server near my location. Why this was not done in the beginning, I've no idea.

 

Honestly it's gotten to the point now where it's pretty cott-damn obvious that the big changes that we are looking for won't happen. No balance/mmr overhaul, and as for new maps and mechs, get real. Not in any future that I can foresee. Not at this rate. They are still trying to hire programmers ffs.

 

Maybe when, and if, they ever port the game to consoles, we might see new content or major rule changes. 

Yeah yeah it takes time. Dev is hard! and expensive! And I can't do a better job of it, blah blah. I get it.

 

I feel like I've been being told for 3 years straight that maybe Santa will bring me what I really wanted next year. By then you've figure out that there is no Santa. It's starting to get really ridiculous now. Is it raining or are we getting pissed on?

 

Flash back to the other night when three ~2100 players got matched against four ~2700 players. All I could think was "wow this matchmaking thing is fubared. is the problem that they can't fix it, or they don't want to fix it?" 

 

Sorry to veer slightly off topic. 

 

At least smurfing enables people to get into a game at all, and makes the player base look a bit larger on paper, which, if I was trying to get investors interested in dumping money into my game, might be a favorable thing. (This is why we now have no Fred - some moneyman saw a picture and said "...so....you drive around in a tv set?")

 

tl;dr: smurfing is not ever going to stop, especially if they don't unlock the servers. There will be no major changes to the game anytime soon, be happy with what you got, if they won't unlock at least some servers, I say smurf away. 

[Draigun]

I'm with those that agree the servers should be unlocked. Too many circumstances that promote an unbalanced match because the MM doesn't make ideal choices.

 

I'm sure for the lower end of the skill tier, it's not a problem. But for players who excel at this game, this is where the new system's shortcomings are to be seen. Long times to find a match only to be placed into a 1700 average MMR server with 3 to 5 people.

 

Capnjosh mentioned before that there is certainly a different approach needed for the smaller percentage of players. However it's been quite some time when that post was published. I wonder if they plan to follow through, or are still experimenting with a different system?

 

Also this is relevant to the discussion:

Spoiler

[...]

 

[...]

 

The stricter requirements [for manual joining] were a desire to reduce pubstomping, and reduce the MMR spread in each match. As effective as that may be, they should have only changed the matchmaker logic. An overhaul to the server browser that is able to portray deeper insight into each server is paramount to the act of manual joining. Friend invitations to a match would benefit from more information presented to the user.

 

The developers probably don't envision Hawken like this in the near future, though. Any form of reliance on server information is not always stable in game design, since this would require knowledge that they [the end users] may not have. Efforts to increase the knowledge would be helpful, but will always miss the crucial point: an enjoyable, out of the box, gameplay experience. [...]

 

Edited by Draigun, 21 August 2015 - 01:17 PM.

[nepacaka]

Well, that worked better back then because all players had started about the same time

 

it doesn't matter. for example, i play in shooter better than ordinary players, i mean, every shooter game in which i play. since hawken started, i probably stomped other players "doubly harder", than now. because now i play 70-80% time with the same strong players, autobalancer put me in match with these peoples automatically, and 20-30% i play with lower skill guys, sometimes i play with totally nubs (actually very rare case, and mostly it is DM, where nobody safe you)

 

i want to say, that autobalancer working good. and even on EU servers. where population not very high as you know. but even if balancer put me in DM with nubs, i use a very simple "suicide-strategy". i just charge in every enemy which i see. it is just non-stop action, I just go ahead, kill someone, and almost don't repair. so, enemies can kill me quickly too. it is help alot, because if not do this, low mmr players starting leave from match (because "always die" - it is not fun) :D

 

if i start use smurfs, 70% time i will play with nubs, because autobalancer will always put me to 1600-1700 players. it is not good.

 

 

 

another thing which i want to say about people who tell "smurfs is not problem".

yeah, probably, it is not a problem, but... even if you have 2600 on your smurf, you spent some time to increase your smurf account mmr. and in this time...you can play with nubs. so, every time when you create a smurf, you play with nubs about 5-20 hours (maybe more, idk) before you mmr increased, and this smurf not make any sense, because after you are reach 2400+, this smurf not allowed to match.

 

so...only one reason i can see why you create a many smurfs - it is a period of time, from 1500 mmr, before you reach 2200. and in this time you stomp nubs.

remark. any players who have <1850 - play like a nubs for me. 1900-2000 - average shooter player. this is my personal separation. player with less than 1700 are bots.

 

 

i know, smurf is a very small percentage, but for newbie players, play with smurf = play with cheaters. this is why some people whining. i mean, nobody love play with cheaters, and people who made a smurfs look like cheaters for low mmr players.

 

babaji english, sorry, google translate not working.

Edited by nepacaka, 21 August 2015 - 02:00 PM.

[HepTagoN]

Also, that people create Smurfs only to stomp beginners is complete bs. Nobody enjoys that unless that person has something to compensate.

 

Wrong. Not bs at all. Perhaps some dont enjoy stomp, but major part do. People are assholes.

 

 

 

 

How is that my mmr is (was?) higher than most of people taht complaint about absence of servers, yet i havent experienced all those difficulties finding match. I even rarely use matchmaker queue.

Somone pls explain.

Edited by HepTagoN, 21 August 2015 - 02:03 PM.

[nepacaka]

Somone pls explain.

 

it is babaji blessing, nothing moar than dis

[Nept]

Also... OP blaming smurfs for their own uncontrollable temper? LMFAO. ...

 

Welcome to outrage culture.

[BlackWarGreymon]

I find it hilarious how privilaged some of the cry babies feel, coming to a game that is over 4 years old and expecting people to bend over backwards to make them happy- a few pointers for you kiddies:

1) this game is indeed over 4 years old, the reason why people make new accounts is simply because they either 'fully levelled up' their old one ( all mechs + items unlocked + insane amount of HC saved up with NOTHING TO SPEND IT ON, HINT HINT ).

2) From my own experience, it takes less than 20-30 hours game play( at most ) to reach over 2000 MMR, which means any notions of high MMR players stomping noobs in low MMR servers is a total joke. The low MMR servers all end up locked very quickly since one cannot enter it due to having too high of an MMR themselves. Any noob stomping that takes place is only for a short period of time at best.

3) It's worth noting that on any given week night, ~90% of servers are empty- fewer than 200-250 players active so if a high MMR player does manage to get into a server, any server, it's a miracle- maybe try learning from the 'better players' instead of crying like a little baby about them being better than you.

TL;DR? Grow up.

This game needs new features to stop it from totally dying, you should be happy that there are still some veterans around to keep you motivated to play better- most of us left a long time ago and abandoned the festering servers that are full of farmers, trolls and morons- you won't learn to play better it f that's all you have to look up to.

[nepacaka]

1) this game is indeed over 4 years old, the reason why people make new accounts is simply because they either 'fully levelled up' their old one.

 

i have 4 brawlers on my accounts, and 3 of each C-class with different weapons, and all other mech in 1-2 version (cuz i mostly play on C), i did it before ascension (because early you can't change weapon in fight, so if i want the same mech with other weapon, i should have some duplicate).

 

i mean, if you have all mech, you just can buy a duplicate and leveled up it on your current account. don't see the reason to make new acc if you have all. and actually, i play ~400 hours, and i don't have all items and internals =/

 

 

 

This game needs new features to stop it from totally dying

 

hawken can working well on autopilot. even if reloaded totally failed, they can use a "backup plan". just implement in game all other mech chassis to make money. (like with Hon chassis)

If implement one new chassis every month, this content will be enough for one year. + they can make a some balance tweaking and delete 50% servers where nobody never play.

 

 

I find it hilarious

 

I find it hilarious because you are someone smurf xD

Edited by nepacaka, 21 August 2015 - 04:22 PM.

[nepacaka]

2) From my own experience, it takes less than 20-30 hours game play( at most ) to reach over 2000 MMR

 

this is why you can see many accounts only with assault on it (sometimes it scout or berserk) and 20 hrs of play. player probably no longer play on this account.

he play 20-30 hrs and than make a new smurf.

if you check herokuapp you can find such accounts with High mmr and ~20 hrs of play.

these people use smurf to stomp nubs. and it is their main objective.

Edited by nepacaka, 21 August 2015 - 04:39 PM.

[hoghead]

sigh....

[Meraple]

this is why you can see many accounts only with assault on it (sometimes it scout or berserk) and 20 hrs of play. player probably no longer play on this account.
he play 20-30 hrs and than make a new smurf.
if you check herokuapp you can find such accounts with High mmr and ~20 hrs of play.
these people use smurf to stomp nubs. and it is their main objective.

I don't think it's entirely that straightforward.
I smurf to make serverbrowsing into 2000-2300 servers possible for me, and my current smurf reached 2500MMR at 20h played.
At 22h atm and server browsing is already pretty stupid, but I'll have to get another smurf soon if I want to keep using the server browser.

Personally I'd love it if 2100> servers allowed everyone with a higher MMR to join, or maybe even the somewhat extreme (imo) suggestion to unlock all the servers.

[nepacaka]

Personally I'd love it if 2100> servers allowed everyone

 

it is look like best idea ever! xD

[Anichkov3]

I do not understand. Why do some people say that using the smurf you will get the balance in the match?

You talk about unlocking servers ... you ever thinking where it leads? Do you think that all high level players such "noble"?

I can to offer not much:

1) to implement a set of measures improving matchmaking  https://community.pl...fix/#entry54571

2) Remove from the game (or lock) to the "browser servers."

3) Decrease search time of the match in the "Quick Start" to 1 minute.

[Nept]

 

You talk about unlocking servers ... you ever thinking where it leads? Do you think that all high level players such "noble"?

 

Less about being "noble" and more about being bored stiff.

[nepacaka]

Less about being "noble" and more about being bored stiff.

this is why early hawken was more funny. you no need to waiting. now you spent 3 minutes before find a match, then wait time before match start, then wait time before next match, then players starting leave from match, you are alone, and you need find another match 3 min...

 

early i play more, now i play some matches and i'm tired from this waiting =(

 

and 6v6 matches where one team have less skill is still funny, than 5v6 with equal mmr. it is actually more unbalanced, because in 6v6 match you lose because you have a lack of skill, and in 5v6, 5v4 matches you lose because it is actually unbalanced, and other team have additional 2000 damage and some HP. it is "not fair". and it is even worse than teams have difference mmr.

 

and when i lose 6v6 match (even my team stomped on base) i'm not feel myself weird, but lose in 5v6 make me mad, because it is unbalanced match.

 

 

early players make a smurf because "free 500 MC" you can create severals accounts and buy some cosmetics for each you mechs. now it is not required, because camo and thrusters is shared to all mechs. now only one reason to make a smurf, play in 6v6 without waiting.

Edited by nepacaka, 22 August 2015 - 12:38 AM.

[HHJFTRU]

How is that my mmr is (was?) higher than most of people taht complaint about absence of servers, yet i havent experienced all those difficulties finding match. I even rarely use matchmaker queue.

Somone pls explain.

 

I think there is a big difference betwen NA and EU regarding this, because in EU pings are similar on different servers.

I am writing this about the situation in EU :

I sometimes check the herokuapp server list in the daytime while working on my computer and I see that in EU the 2000+ MMR people are quite sprayed out across all servers. For example if there are 12 of them online at a given time, 6 are playing Siege with each other (and with some lower MMR folks) and the other 6 are everywhere on the lower MMR servers. Because of that reason there are very few servers that have a high MMR average which really good players can join via the server browser.

So, from the vets point of view, noobs are polluting their matches. From the noob point of view, vice versa.

Please keep the beginners and the elite separated. The 1800+ MMR servers could be unlocked IMO.

 

And I do believe that there are people who do enjoy to stomp noobs for whatever reason, some are even choosing callsigns that reflect that attitude, insult players and do cheezy pretendings that they are not smurfs, etc, and I believe that some are doing this regularly (make new accounts every second day). I don't care about them anymore (there were times when I got frustrated) but I saw many times people getting very angry, make bad comments about the game itself, rage quit, etc.

I have absolutely no problems with alt accounts whose MMR more or less represent the true skill of the player.

Edited by HHJFTRU, 22 August 2015 - 01:10 AM.

[nepacaka]

I have absolutely no problems with alt accounts whose MMR more or less represent the true skill of the player.

 

it is just because your skill is high too. i actually not care about this. but probably if i have a 1700 mmr, i will be sad if 1 level enemy moving like a god and kill me every time. probably, i've starting think that he is a cheater.

Edited by nepacaka, 22 August 2015 - 03:03 AM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

it is just because your skill is high too. i actually not care about this. but probably if i have a 1700 mmr, i will be sad if 1 level enemy moving like a god and kill me every time. probably, i've starting think that he is a cheater.

 

 

So, if I am in a game you managed to get into, and am moving like a god and kill you every time, but my screen name is 'Call_Me_Ishmael', you would have a problem with my skill level?

[nepacaka]

no, i'm not about it. i mean that low mmr players have a more emotional reaction to it. ie if you have 2300 mmr, and you see a player from 1500 mmr, who actually plays like 2300. You do not care, you kill him (or die) and continue moving.

but if you have a low skill, you go on forum and post new topic about smurfs. something like topic starter made. he is not first who post something like this.

Edited by nepacaka, 22 August 2015 - 03:58 AM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Got it.

[Amidatelion]

OMG. I *thought* I was the only one.

Y'all think you're cute but we laugh about the obviousness in irc afterwards.

[crockrocket]

 following Amid around in various accounts that he has no idea of and targeting him specifically

 

This is the most legitimate reason I have heard to smurf. You are excused.

 

 

JK, idgaf if you smurf. But bloody hell reloaded, just unlock the damn servers already. Jeesy peets

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Y'all think you're cute but we laugh about the obviousness in irc afterwards.

 

Just for the record, I was in for the joke post.  I don't, and have never done this to you or anyone else, except for one player, who richly deserves it because she cannot keep from hackusations when she cannot kill me.

 

I am in the same match with you, Amid, (outside of practice) about 1x/3mo.   If it's someone from the Auld Gange, I usually decloak and tell them (Merl was the most recent).

 

Edit:  BTW, y'all wanna use "y'all", y'all need to move to Texas, y'all.

 

Second edit:  I wonder how much of your IRC is incorrectly attributed to me?  Most of the time I'm not using Scout, for example, but using my weakest of the testdrives available, and I've been playing in Europe a lot.

Edited by Call_Me_Ishmael, 22 August 2015 - 12:29 PM.

[DieselCat]

For me, smurfing is a problem when a match gets one very high mmr player in an otherwise fairly balanced group of teams. I understand the rationale behind most top tier players for creating an alt account just to be able to find a match they can get into.....we all know (small player base vs. very small number of very good players)

 

I mostly try to find the highest tier mmr match I'm allowed to get into, hoping there is at least a bit of balance between teams. This seems to help me do better by having to up my game to keep up and if I do fairly well in these matches it does improve my mmr. Where as if I just do good in a match where the mmr range isn't much above mine,  the gain is minimal at best or it even drops....sometimes like a rock  

 

I know some will say, people really shouldn't be concerned with what their mmr number is, but I'm just one that likes to use it as a bar for improvement..and yes, a 1950-2050 mmr looks better that a 1700-1800.

 

So, back on topic...I agree with others, if the servers are opened up to all player levels, hopefully that will help produced better balance in most matches, let all players find any match they want and maybe curtail the amount of smurf accounts needed to be able to play until the game is able to recruit and hold new players. 

 

*+ 

[HHJFTRU]

it is just because your skill is high too.

 

Alas, it's not the case.

[BlackWarGreymon]

I do not understand.

It's simple really; if you can't hack the pace, then quit.

2) Remove from the game (or lock) to the "browser servers."

NO. They did this once before and there was a riot on the forum- that's why it was brought back after a fairly short space of time.

Like I already said, this game has a well established community, toxic and elitist as it may be in some corners, there is no reason why new players should be making demands so that they can have their baby servers just for them to play in. You need a mix of all experience and skill levels on teams, otherwise you don't learn to play better. Then again, no one listens regardless most of the time- teamwork is a dying art..

[Flifang]

I for one do not enjoy doing well in a match, only to have my mmr drop regardless because a smurf was in the game and significantly increased the performance the server expects of me. That I do not enjoy. I've avoided making mmr a goal of mine but at this point, because I refuse to smurf because 1 I'm too lazy to keep track of passwords, and 2 I just don't want to. I have 3 of almost every mech at least and have almost all the awards I feel like going after. The only tangible form of progression I can work towards at this moment is getting my mmr back where it should be, and evening out my kdr.

[airshaman]

So as i see spending your time on hawken with this problem of finding servers when you get high on mmr , forcing you to play with not interesting lower level players , is basicly a waste of time , maybe you are right on that , the problem is ... is it worthy? what's the point to get high and because the developers or who else is responsible and not capable to solve this problem , lead to the point of not being able to enjoy the game... maybe this is a reason not to play at all ... i'll think about that ... pitty a good game is having a silly problem like that ... well i'll know what to warn my friends about hawken , be sure many will not even want to see how it looks like ... pitty ...