230 replies to this topic

[CZeroFive]

So this actually had to be revisited recently.
We're planning on some rebalancing for consoles very soon and we'd rather fix this issue sooner than later.

So here's an idea that we're tossing around:

 

We'd add in an "Expert" Repair Kit and "Expert" Energy Extractor which would become 4-slot internals with the stats of the current 3-slot internals. The 3-slot, 2-slot, and 1-slot internals would then have reduced effectiveness compared to what they have now. As you'd might imagine, that would mean you would have to equip only a 2 or 1 slot internal after that. And you certainly couldn't equip more than one of the 4-slots.

 

I am curious as to how that would be received by the community, so I am posting it here in this thread before we continue on with the idea. Additionally, if that sounds like a decently good idea, what other internals would you move to 4-slot internals? Air 180/Dodge internals come to mind for that. Obviously none of this is set in stone. I would like to see what the community has to say about those internals.

Edited by CZeroFive, 10 October 2016 - 12:02 PM.

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

4 slot repair kit and a 2 slot extractor just sounds like a better orb lord build. Am I missing something here? Surely I'm wrong and this wasn't the best idea they've been tossing around.

Edited by WmMoneyFrmMissouri, 10 October 2016 - 12:16 PM.

[DerMax]

So this actually had to be revisited recently.
We're planning on some rebalancing for consoles very soon and we'd rather fix this issue sooner than later.

So here's an idea that we're tossing around:

 

We'd add in an "Expert" Repair Kit and "Expert" Energy Extractor which would become 4-slot internals with the stats of the current 3-slot internals. The 3-slot, 2-slot, and 1-slot internals would then have reduced effectiveness compared to what they have now. As you'd might imagine, that would mean you would have to equip only a 2 or 1 slot internal after that. And you certainly couldn't equip more than one of the 4-slots.

 

I am curious as to how that would be received by the community, so I am posting it here in this thread before we continue on with the idea. Additionally, if that sounds like a decently good idea, what other internals would you move to 4-slot internals? Air 180/Dodge internals come to mind for that. Obviously none of this is set in stone. I would like to see what the community has to say about those internals.

Why have those Expert internals at all? What function would they have that'd justify their existence?

 

Here's a quick breakdown on what we want with items and internals:

 

1. Remove scanner altogether

2. Remove composite armor altogether

3. Reduce the stats of the orlblord internals

4. Add new items and internals

 

And this is it. In the long run, it'd be better to redo the entire internal system so that each of the internals has their pros and cons instead of just added stats.

[CZeroFive]

4 slot repair kit and a 2 slot extractor just sounds like a better orb lord build. Am I missing something here? Surely I'm wrong and this wasn't the best idea they've been tossing around.

 

The effectiveness would be as follows:

4-slot repair kit: 35% (was 45 on 3-slot before), 3-slot repair kit 25%, 2-slot repair kit 10%, 1-slot repair kit 5%

4-slot extractor: 25% (was 30 on 3-slot before), 3-slot extractor 10%, 2-slot extractor 5%, 1-slot extractor 2.5%

 

Repair kit would be a better option for pure survival, whereas extractor could be used for Siege. If you wanted to focus on that specific internal loadout, the option would be there. The downside would be that you would have only that internal equipped and could not benefit from other sources.

 

edit: fudged some numbers :(

Edited by CZeroFive, 10 October 2016 - 12:46 PM.

[CZeroFive]

Why have those Expert internals at all? What function would they have that'd justify their existence?

 

Here's a quick breakdown on what we want with items and internals:

 

1. Remove scanner altogether

2. Remove composite armor altogether

3. Reduce the stats of the orlblord internals

4. Add new items and internals

 

And this is it. In the long run, it'd be better to redo the entire internal system so that each of the internals has their pros and cons instead of just added stats.

 

For composite armor, and scanner - I think it'd be a good idea to remove those completely, or at least repurpose the scanner into something else so we don't 'lose' an internal that someone already bought. In the case of composite armor, I agree, effectiveness is too much and reducing it to 4% instead of the 15% it is right now seems like a good idea.

 

We've already reduced the stats of the orblord internals, I neglected to mention that initially.

[DerMax]

For composite armor, and scanner - I think it'd be a good idea to remove those completely, or at least repurpose the scanner into something else so we don't 'lose' an internal that someone already bought. In the case of composite armor, I agree, effectiveness is too much and reducing it to 4% instead of the 15% it is right now seems like a good idea.

 

We've already reduced the stats of the orblord internals, I neglected to mention that initially.

It's not about the exact digits, it's about the function. Any internal that promotes dying/yolodiving (which composite armor certainly does) is generally frowned upon in the community (hence the negative reaction to the suicide bomb on one of the console mechs).

 

Also: really appreciate your communication. Wish the other dev team members could do the same.

Edited by DerMax, 10 October 2016 - 12:37 PM.

[CZeroFive]

It's not about the exact digits, it's about the function. Any internal that promotes dying (which composite armor certainly does) is generally frowned upon in the community (hence the negative reaction to the suicide bomb on one of the console mechs).

 

Also: really appreciate your communication. Wish the other dev team members could do the same.

 

We could make the internal always-on but have a reduction to movement speed. The downside is you wouldn't be able to slot another internal and that would take up a spot.

 

Also since I don't think I addressed it, the purpose of the 4-slot internals is to add 'class-defying' elements. So some of the ideas we had in mind were the ability to make a class-c mech have increased base speed, but at the risk of not taking a tank internal. Likewise you could 'tank' up a class-a mech but you'd be missing out on some of the mobility. We want to start adding in internals with tradeoffs instead of pure benefit and we think that would be a step in the right direction.

Edited by CZeroFive, 10 October 2016 - 12:39 PM.

[DerMax]

We could make the internal always-on but have a reduction to movement speed. The downside is you wouldn't be able to slot another internal and that would take up a spot.

 

Also since I don't think I addressed it, the purpose of the 4-slot internals is to add 'class-defying' elements. So some of the ideas we had in mind were the ability to make a class-c mech have increased base speed, but at the risk of not taking a tank internal. Likewise you could 'tank' up a class-a mech but you'd be missing out on some of the mobility. We want to start adding in internals with tradeoffs instead of pure benefit and we think that would be a step in the right direction.

I think it's okay to add class-defining elements, but not at the expense of variety. If you make these elements too strong (which your suggestion seems to be at the moment), people will always go with them, and that'll be no different than having internals set in stone like it is in the console version right now.

 

Ultimately, however, you will have to figure what's best for Hawken on your own, because pretty much 95% of all the players who could offer a well-informed, in-depth opinion on the matter have stopped visiting the forums or playing the game.

[CZeroFive]

I think it's okay to add class-defining elements, but not at the expense of variety. If you make these elements too strong (which your suggestion seems to be at the moment), people will always go with them, and that'll be no different than having internals set in stone like it is in the console version right now.

 

Ultimately, however, you will have to figure what's best for Hawken on your own, because pretty much 95% of all the players who could offer a well-informed, in-depth opinion on the matter have stopped visiting the forums or playing the game.

 

The intention is to make people have options. Obviously min/maxers will pick the most optimized route if they're trying to play competitively, but we figure it will be nice to have the ability to make a non-standard or viable mech combination.

 

At some point the line has to be drawn between a game being balanced and a game being fun. If we don't have options for people to pick, the game simply won't be fun. If we give them too many options, they will find an imbalanced combination and stick with it. It's a real double edged sword and I would rather the game be fun while being as balanced as possible.

[TheButtSatisfier]

(red emphasis mine)

 

We'd add in an "Expert" Repair Kit and "Expert" Energy Extractor which would become 4-slot internals with the stats of the current 3-slot internals. The 3-slot, 2-slot, and 1-slot internals would then have reduced effectiveness compared to what they have now. As you'd might imagine, that would mean you would have to equip only a 2 or 1 slot internal after that. And you certainly couldn't equip more than one of the 4-slots.

 

While the proposed changes might very well address true orblording (RK + EX loadout), they appear to be overly complex given the nature of the problem. Instead of tweaking the values of the 3/2/1 slot items and adding a 4 slot item, just tweak the values of the 3/2/1 slot items. I understand there's some desire to experiment with 4-slot items, but seriously, this is going to now be the second attempt at addressing orblording and what you're proposing here is still not least impactful change you could make (since 4-slot internals are in the proposal).

 

For composite armor, and scanner - I think it'd be a good idea to remove those completely, or at least repurpose the scanner into something else so we don't 'lose' an internal that someone already bought. In the case of composite armor, I agree, effectiveness is too much and reducing it to 4% instead of the 15% it is right now seems like a good idea.

 

Please please please repurpose or tweak values of internals instead of discarding them.

 

We've already reduced the stats of the orblord internals, I neglected to mention that initially.

 

What are they now? Is 3 slot RK @ 25% and 3 slot EX @ 10%?

 

We could make the internal always-on but have a reduction to movement speed. The downside is you wouldn't be able to slot another internal and that would take up a spot.

 

Also since I don't think I addressed it, the purpose of the 4-slot internals is to add 'class-defying' elements. So some of the ideas we had in mind were the ability to make a class-c mech have increased base speed, but at the risk of not taking a tank internal. Likewise you could 'tank' up a class-a mech but you'd be missing out on some of the mobility. We want to start adding in internals with tradeoffs instead of pure benefit and we think that would be a step in the right direction.

 

I thought the nice thing about the current internal system is that the inherent tradeoff of each internal is the opportunity cost of not using another. That's a pretty common mechanic in many online games, and not just shooters. New players aren't going to feel overwhelmed by wondering if the tradeoff they've chosen going to be effective given the current meta. Furthermore, restricting internals to only provide positive benefits to the player conveniently reduces the variables that need to be considered when making balancing changes.

 

In short, I'm not a big fan of adding internal tradeoffs when it feels like there's a good system for that already. I am, however, a big fan of improving on the good stuff you already have (like said system). I say that you should feel free to experiment with new internals after you've already fixed broken internals (EX / RK / scanner) and made other internals more relevant (turrets / heat charge / ISM). Once your house of internals is in good order, then by all means I think it would be cool to see some 4, 5, and 6 class-defying slot internals that become progressively more powerful but should never get too OP if the slot system is used effectively.

 

Curious as to how that would be received by the community, so I am posting it here in this thread before we continue on with the idea. Additionally, if that sounds like a decently good idea, what other internals would you move to 4-slot internals? Air 180/Dodge internals come to mind for that. Obviously none of this is set in stone. I would like to see what the community has to say about those internals.

 

I've heard compelling arguments that both of those internals shouldn't be internals at all, and instead they should be default movements across all mech types. As for the internals themselves? Repurpose them in some manner. Make the air compressor an internal that increases dodge distance, for example.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 10 October 2016 - 01:59 PM.

[Hyginos]

If repair kit still ups heal amount

and makes the heal rate more pronounced

Then that 4 slot one

described up above

will be on all of my mechs without doubt.

[PsychedelicGrass]

Air 180 and air compressor should not be internals, they greatly add to your movement options and everyone should have that available from the beginning. Or probably keep the internals because deleting things is bad, rework them to give extra benefits like less fuel needed to air dodge (probably a bad idea actually, don't do that) or something else

Also the biggest extractor is two slots so I'm super confused.. you're wanting to add another variant of each internal that uses more slots? Why? Just adjust the stats of the current ones, if you want 4+ slot internals then I suppose it's time to create some original content.



I see where you're coming from with this idea but it seems redundant and unnecessary to add more versions of these internals, adjusting the stats or making them incompatible with one another seems like a better route to take.

Edited by PsychedelicGrass, 10 October 2016 - 02:48 PM.

[CounterlogicMan]

If repair kit still ups heal amount
and makes the heal rate more pronounced
Then that 4 slot one
described up above
will be on all of my mechs without doubt.

Why? It is a 4 slot that ups the amount by less than what the current 3 slot one does. What Czero is proposing is a definite nerf to the repair kit and extractor. Eapecially when considering their power when used together compared to now.

[Neraste]

Also since I don't think I addressed it, the purpose of the 4-slot internals is to add 'class-defying' elements. So some of the ideas we had in mind were the ability to make a class-c mech have increased base speed, but at the risk of not taking a tank internal. Likewise you could 'tank' up a class-a mech but you'd be missing out on some of the mobility.

 

This reminds me the technological tree of the old versions of Hawken (which I have not known, but heard about), where you could get a fatty scout. I think this way to add a different feel to the mech (not just about fighting) could be fun.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

 

I've heard compelling arguments that both of those internals shouldn't be internals at all, and instead they should be default movements across all mech types. As for the internals themselves? Repurpose them in some manner. Make the air compressor an internal that increases dodge distance, for example.

 

....aaaand I disagree.  I agree with most of what you wrote, and with DerMax.

 

But... I think AC is a crutch, and really detracts from learning good movement.  I would rather limit it to some classes - like Zerker/Rocky, and trade some other stat - health/duration of ability.

 

Dave and I (the other Dave?) have never used AC, pretty sure guys like Pancake didn't either. 

 

Edit: Ground Scout best Scout.

Edited by Call_Me_Ishmael, 10 October 2016 - 03:34 PM.

[Draco3]

Czero you mentioned

We're planning on some rebalancing for consoles very soon

. Will these updates be coming to PC or is this just a console thing?

[nepacaka]

For composite armor, and scanner - I think it'd be a good idea to remove those completely, or at least repurpose the scanner into something else so we don't 'lose' an internal that someone already bought. In the case of composite armor, I agree, effectiveness is too much and reducing it to 4% instead of the 15% it is right now seems like a good idea.

 

We've already reduced the stats of the orblord internals, I neglected to mention that initially.

some ideas about scanner

  1) as a variant, scanner can be a counter-internal against cloak mechs (infil and pred), and if mech in optical-camoflage in a scanner range, he show this current enemy at radar (i mean, it is always show only pred in invis and infil in invis, but not show this mech at all if they don't use ability). and rename it into "Detector"

  2) the second idea - rename it into "Signal Amplifier". scanner don't do nothing, but increase default radar range for mech. let say, brawler have have 90m radar, if brawler stay in scanner range he got 110 (for example, or 105 maybe)

 3) you can just rework scanner to be the same like original mech radar. i.e. it is just increase you range and give your teammates see mech out of their radar range.
it is like you just place at a map 6 mech, which stand still and don't doing nothing. And rename it into "Portable Radar" like it was before. It is mean, portable radar show enemies only if they shoot or use boost/ jump/ fly. ez.

also, try to fix a radar bug. when you play on scout, and than change mech on brawler your radar "scale" equal scout values, not as a brawler. it is mean you can play one time on scout when match start (or even kill yourself) and have more comfortable radar whole match. 

some ideas about composite armor.
it should be reworked. nerf not help. 

  1) speed based "composite". (not sure if this is a good idea, probably not)
1 slot = +2% HP, -5% walk, boost, and air speed (full mech speed except dodge speed and cooldown)
2 slot = +4% HP, -10% walk, boost, and air speed (full mech speed except dodge speed and cooldown)
3 slot = +6% HP, -15% walk, boost, and air speed (full mech speed except dodge speed and cooldown)
this mean, it will be usefull on C-class (and maybe some B), because working in %

Brawler got - 800HP*6%= +48 HP buff, and 24.32ms*-15% = -3.65ms speed nerf.
total with 3 slot "composite" - 848HP and 20.67 speed nerf.

Scout got - 320HP*6%= 19.2 HP buff, and 39.80ms*-15% = -5.97ms speed nerf.
total with 3 slot "composite" - 339.2 HP buff, and 33.83 speed nerf.

it is mean composite is not very good for a-class, losing much more speed, and hp bonus not very much for such sacrifice. but c-class can use it to be more tanky, and at the same time they lose less speed. (but probably it can be imba with current C-class HP, because now 6-Class it is just imba with a lot of HP. My personal opinion, you should decrease B and C class HP, and got him +0,5/+1% speed. 6 brawlers with 900+ HP... just imba, have no idea how to stop these "walking walls" :3

  2) the second way
1 slot = +1% HP
2 slot = +2.5% HP
3 slot = +5% HP
Just spent you slots to got small amount of bonus armor

  3) the third way. rename composite armor into "Dynamic armor" internal (i like this variant)
1 slot = increase you armor rate to +3% when your HP is below 30% (or 25%)
2 slot = increase you armor rate to +6% when your HP is below 30% (or 25%)
3 slot = increase you armor rate to +9% when your HP is below 30% (or 25%)
numbers can be different and should be tested. this also can help some C-class in tanking which lifepool is high. 
Now it is "help survival" internal, instead suicidal.


and just decrease rate of orblord internals as Dermax say, and test it. it is actually easy solution.
i personally think, this game no need 4 slots internals.


 

If we don't have options for people to pick, the game simply won't be fun

 

this game not be fun, because:

Spoiler

- scanner

 

- air compressor/ air-dodge (this thing making game unplayable for 95%. this internal is an elitish, and created for elitish players to play with another elitish players. ordinary players are not able to kill good player with air-compressor. this thing literally shred their into pieces without a chance. in my opinion, really annoying thing. compressor required at least 2k+ skill to counter this internals. also, even with good reaction and not bad skill, you still can fiasco if you ping just a little higher than normal.
AC also making weapons like eoc/heat almost unusable. you really should be a genious (and probably a nerd) to be good with those weapons against high skill AC user. (even if you good it is also required good ping/ good PC and FPS, perfect reaction and tonnes of luck)

 

- invisible walls and objects (you can see it only with ultra quality. and literally, these objects actually not need, game looking fine without these objects)

 

- papa-inci with 200dps + tech + no overheat (goodbye fun). incinerator dps should be "the lowest" in game if compared with others, and as a compensation for lower dps - he have good HP and good speed, he can buff teammates, debuf enemies, and shooting without overheat. Incinirator should be a support, not super strong damager, which very strong with tech.

 

- Sustain weapons is OP, "damage before overheat" stat should be decreased minimum on 50-100 points

 

- big C-class life pool, which make game super boring and slow. Heavy mechs just replacement each and repair. when you kill one, the fresh 800 HP return from base and start fight again, and you still trying beat down it.

 

- big maps like lost eco, and stupid map like bunker without covers, which all about SS and rocky (every second siege on LE is a 6 rocketeer, every second bunker - raiders+SS+ARssaults). Just right now bunker is OK, only because nubs on rockeeters don't understand that they can shoot HF in air. and they play raider instead :P

 

- idiotic base-turrets in siege mode, which can't kill enemies, and allow you "pressing" enemy team on base. they should literally deal 999 damage per shoot and do a "oneshot" for enemies who trying attack base.

C-class dodge and speed is ugly. it can't save you. and you can't dodge rocket. enemy can miss, but it is not you merit, it is enemy mistake! C-class and B-class HP should be decreased, to not create such a big "lifepool" if you team full of heavy, instead big HP, give them the same dodge distance and dodge speed. C-class now it is nothing than "HP exchange" gameplay. it is not fun.
i better play on brawler with 680-700HP, but have a 25 meters dodge distance, and high speed dodge (and obviously increase some walk/boost speed)
just for example:
6 scouts * 320HP = 1920 HP
6 Brawlers * 800HP = 4800 HP = too long to kill...
6 Brawlers * 680HP = 4080 HP = much better. whole shooting time beetwen team can decrease on 15%. more kills - more fun. 

Edited by nepacaka, 10 October 2016 - 04:09 PM.

[MechFighter5e3bf9]

another idea to add to the one above how about rename radar to Seizmo or Seizmograph and function as before only remove its ability to detect immobile or sneaking mechs

[Hyginos]

Why? It is a 4 slot that ups the amount by less than what the current 3 slot one does. What Czero is proposing is a definite nerf to the repair kit and extractor. Eapecially when considering their power when used together compared to now.

 

4-slot repair kit: 35% (was 45 on 3-slot before), 3-slot repair kit 25%, 2-slot repair kit 10%, 1-slot repair kit 5%

 

"Nerf" implies that the numbers go down.

[CounterlogicMan]

Yeah, if I am reading what Czero said about the number changes the numbers are going down. Unless all of a sudden 35% of something is more than 45% and the 2 slot extractor would only give 5% more extraction rate. Which is much less than what it does now if the tooltip is right. Which is why I was confused on why you would opt to use a 4 2 orblord setup with the proposed changes since that would be significantly less powerful than it is now with a 3 2 1 setup.

[crockrocket]

So this actually had to be revisited recently.
We're planning on some rebalancing for consoles very soon and we'd rather fix this issue sooner than later.
So here's an idea that we're tossing around:

We'd add in an "Expert" Repair Kit and "Expert" Energy Extractor which would become 4-slot internals with the stats of the current 3-slot internals. The 3-slot, 2-slot, and 1-slot internals would then have reduced effectiveness compared to what they have now. As you'd might imagine, that would mean you would have to equip only a 2 or 1 slot internal after that. And you certainly couldn't equip more than one of the 4-slots.

I am curious as to how that would be received by the community, so I am posting it here in this thread before we continue on with the idea. Additionally, if that sounds like a decently good idea, what other internals would you move to 4-slot internals? Air 180/Dodge internals come to mind for that. Obviously none of this is set in stone. I would like to see what the community has to say about those internals.

Moving air 180 and ac to 4 slots would be asinine in my opinion

[Nept]

Moving air 180 and ac to 4 slots would be asinine in my opinion

 

I'm all for moving air 180 to 4 slots just so we can watch Crafty unravel on IRC.

[DerMax]

@C05

 

Oh please don't make air-dodging a mechanic. I'm not against air-dodging per se, but the way it is implemented right now is poor: it ruins the immersion by making the mechs feel paper-thin instead of heavy and hulking, because air-dodging nullifies your vertical momentum, and it is a mechanic that teaches new pilots bad in-game habits (air dodge spam). Additionally, because the boost delay will have to get decreased sooner or later, the simple but almost uncounterable "jump out the corner-shoot-airdodge back" trick will be overused to the point of frustration.

[nepacaka]

another idea to add to the one above how about rename radar to Seizmo or Seizmograph and function as before only remove its ability to detect immobile or sneaking mechs

it will be the same wallhack. the same thing like "seismic sensor" module in MWO, which allow you see enemies who walking throughs wall if you stand. in MWO seismic working only on 200 m range, it is a very small radius radius, but this ability just imba, and make player who buy it much more stronger and powerfull, because they just can know what ur doing, espesially, if you are play in a scary "melee" heavy mech like atlas with 4 SRM and cannon, or executioner in melee build. And you also sux in these mech if enemy have seismic, and you don't have. because enemy know that you are want make a "surprise attack". you can decieve him if you only stand and don't do nothing,but... anyway, seismic is a module which is mandatory to purchase, just because all other have it.

Edited by nepacaka, 11 October 2016 - 12:34 AM.

[nepacaka]

Another which can have some attention, it is "Global cooldawn" for items and abilities.

first of all, it is decrease carry item count to 1. i mean, make all items like 3 slots. and you can equip two of them.

the next thing, player can use item only one time, and than got 20-30-40 sec cooldawn for it. it is mean you can't use 3 orb, or thwrowing 3 shields/emp. 
it is totally decrease item spam, so, probably you can't just push yourself on enemies an starting throw 3 orb near with u. just because you don't have it.

the reason, why i think the current items mechanic are stupid.
i explain with examples.

1) Current items/ ability system
i have 2 shield and 2 orb (+300 hp), enemy have 2 emp, and 2 orb (+300 hp). i put some shields, enemy disable it with emp, we are hard fighting, consume orbs and i kill enemy. what goes next. after 15 sec, enemy return. i have 0 shields, 0 orbs (+0 hp), enemy have 2 emp and +300 hp again. and also have fresh "ability" to kill me. i kill him agains for example, and it will be a harder fight for me, because i don't have any item to counter his items. and if i kill him, the situation will repeat.
Can anyone explain me "why?". I trying to do my best, survive and not die, but enemy just return more stronger every time. It is really fair? I think not. not in a those sort of game.

Actually, in hawken items and abilities - the same like "skills" in RPG games. it should have reloading time. it stupid for gameplay that you use it once, and then play on "nude mech", at the same times all other who just die, have a tonnes of new items. Why it working only for people who die?


2012 hawken items will be much more better as a "skill", and even ascention system with reloading time will be much more better than steam-patch mechanic.

2) with global cooldawn.
when you kill enemy, and you both use 2 items in fight, in next fight, both of you will be without items (because cooldawn), and the next time, you both recharge your items again. it is normal. it terms of "competitive", both players have the same "powers"

it is also nerf some really imba abilities, like raider, berserk, gren, SS (ok, in console patch gren sux). because they have 50 sec c/d and if you die, you don't have "Free" ability.
At the same time, global cooldown have a good boost for "replenisher internal" which now really have a sense. If you want based your game play on ability, kill people and fight, to decrease you ability time from 50 to 25-30 sec, and use it again to deal even more damage. if you don't want, play with standart 50 and use it when it really help you change situation on battle field and don't press F just because you can.

3) the third thing which can be viable, add on map "points of interest" with timer. which can help you recharge items. For example, if you got one, you refresh one or two of you offensive or defensive items.
i make a screen for explanations. like holografic indicators which show what you "pick up". have no idea it is good or not, but, just an idea.

 

Edited by nepacaka, 11 October 2016 - 01:48 AM.

[6ixxer]

I like the idea of reducing the rates for orblord internals slightly in addition to changing the orb mechanic that mechs can only suck the closest orb, not multiple. Then sitting on 3 orbs you don't get such a huge influx that can outheal lots of incoming damage, but you can drain them one at a time to hold a position if the enemy decide to attack you one at a time.
 
I think scanner should turn into 3 sec pulse instead of constant.
1) its a significant nerf on what you get now. 
2) a lot can change in 3 sec in a fight, otherwise increase it to 4sec
at 3-4 sec you might only get 1 or 2 pings during an encounter.
 
I still like the idea of internals that can reduce effect period of EMP and ISM. some games EMP are everywhere.
I still like the idea of internals that can mitigate debuff mechanics (an also adding a speed debuff weapon on a C-class)
I'd also like to see some more AoE charges like anti-repair and damage-muliplier that can bring utility in objective matches.

Edited by 6ixxer, 11 October 2016 - 10:46 PM.

[coldform]

I'm all for moving air 180 to 4 slots just so we can watch Crafty unravel on IRC.

I would post another mj popcorn gif, but we know what the last one got me...

[Hyginos]

Yeah, if I am reading what Czero said about the number changes the numbers are going down. Unless all of a sudden 35% of something is more than 45% and the 2 slot extractor would only give 5% more extraction rate. Which is much less than what it does now if the tooltip is right. Which is why I was confused on why you would opt to use a 4 2 orblord setup with the proposed changes since that would be significantly less powerful than it is now with a 3 2 1 setup.

 

 

Current 3 slot repair kit value on PC is 25%, which is in my mind plenty good enough to run with AC or def/composite def/fc, or fc/composite and compete in an orb-fuzzy bunny legal environment.

 

In all fairness, the proposed numbers will break the ludicrous ARK/EX/composite lol-I-heal-faster-than-your-ar-does-damage build, but I think RK and EX would still show up on pretty much every build given that change. Honestly I'm not sure that there is a number that exists between over powered and useless for just a numbers change on these internals. Being near an orb butt naked already gives you a tactical advantage, and it always will even if you nerf orb numbers, so increasing that heal rate/amount will always be a good choice. 

 

This is part of the reason why I'd rather see RK and EX just be changed to do different things. Instead of putzing with the numbers till it works, you get to add more internal variety. Plus, every single internal right now allows the mech to do something it did not do at all before, while RK and EX are just straight stat buffs, so they already don't fit with the pack thematically. A handful of suggestions in this thread would fit this trend, and I think maintaining that coherence in design would make the internals easier to balance, as they provide a stat in an isolated manner instead of interacting with other internals or stats that might exist on a mech.

 

Also, I just straight up don't trust RLD to get a number change on RK/EX/orbs right. Generally speaking the direction of design suggests to me that they don't have anyone on staff who has more than a few hours in game, and if they do they aren't paying attention to those people.

 

RE: 6ixxer,

As long as we're still taking whacks at that horse, I still agree with that scanner change, I still disagree with the anti-specific-things change, release Pusher, free Poopslinger, Saturnine's fault, moar maps plox, etc.

[coldform]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the part of the community that organised themselves into a group of pilots who play together, communicate with each other, and foster effective playstyles amongst each other already determine what could be the best course of action to take with this?

And hasn't that fact been stated ad nauseum here?

Edited by coldform, 11 October 2016 - 01:16 PM.

[DallasCreeper]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the part of the community that organised themselves into a group of pilots who play together, communicate with each other, and foster effective playstyles amongst each other already determine what could be the best course of action to take with this?

And hasn't that fact been stated ad nauseum here?

What? I had no idea this existed!

[_incitatus]