96 replies to this topic

[nepacaka]

Ok, actually only 15. But i actually forgot some small thing from this list which i want to tell.

let's go
 

 

1. Sabot Rifle, KE-Sabot and Slug Rifle spread, and Falloff damage.

 

It is broken right now. Slug Rifle have 0(zero) spread unscoped, and have 0 spread while scope. Sabot Rifle have some spread while unscoped, and have 0 spread while scope.
It is totally wrong, and I can explain why.

 

Every secondary weapon in game have a chance to miss. Rocket/Grenades flight slow, so, you can miss with it, or enemy can evade your rockets with Dodge/Boost, even if your aim is very good, enemy have a chance to evade your attack. But nobody can’t escape from Slug and Sabot rifle, doesn’t matter how far you stand. Sabot rifle it is a “Guaranteed Hit”. And you can’t evade it, Dodge doesn’t help.

I mean, you just cannot affect it. Sabot and Slug miss, only if your enemy makes a mistake. But not you.
Also, added here a SS ability to use momentary 2-hand shot + dodge behind cover.  Yes, for example, Brawler also have the same fight manner, But brawler not have guaranteed hit from TOW, only from Flak (and flak not a very accuracy weapon and have a super-falloff). Actually, no one other mech don’t have a “Guaranteed Hit” feature. Even Reaper have a very small chance to miss from his hitscan KE-Sabot.

 

HOW IT SHOULD BE (look in spoiler):

Variant ?1

Spoiler

just make Sabot nohitscan, with 0 spread and fast bullet speed (i think, about 550-600m/s)

 

Variant ?2

Spoiler

I trying to Make falloff more "smooth". whereby reducing the damage of the bullet starting is very early, but the fall of the damage begin is very slow, and starting lose firepower mostly in the end of path.

 

Sabot changes:

 

Sabot Rifle Spread (Scoped) – 0.5
Sabot Rifle Spread (Unscoped) – 7

 

Sabot Rifle damage – 120  (110 current)
Sabot Rifle Unscoped damage – 102  (88 current)

Min scoped damage – 70  (75 current)

Min unscoped damage – 55  (60 current)

Heat generation - 9.25  (11.25 current)

start.Fallof – 150m (320 current)
end.Fallof – 430m (450 current)

 

Falloff damage curves for scoped sabot:

0-150m = 120 damage

150-200m = 116

200-250m = 112

250-300m = 109

300-320m = 105 (320m previously falloff start value, 110 damage early)

320-340m = 99

360-380m = 92

380-400m = 81

400-430m = 70

 

Falloff damage curves for Unscoped sabot:

0-150m = 102 damage

150-200m = 94

200-250m = 88

250-300m = 86

300-320m = 82 (88 early value)

320-340m = 75

360-380m = 69

380-400m = 62

400-430m = 55

 

damage new/old:
0-150m = 120 now/ 110 early

300-320m = 105 now/ 110 early

400-430m = 70 now/ ~79-80 early

450-"Infinity" m = 70 now/ 75 early

 

close range damage is now higher by 10.

on 320 meters sabot scoped damage is almost equal (110 early, 105 now).

damage on very very far distance (400-430m) now decreased by ~10

maximal falloff distance also decreased from 450m to 430m

 

heat generation is also decrease, so, damage before overheat will be increased, and actually you can make more shots in total, you gain 5-10 damage nerf from maximal distance, but have a 1-2 additional shots (it is actually plus ~100-200 damage), i suppose it is actually good.

 

 

Slug changes:

 

Slug Rifle Spread (Scoped) – 0.6
Slug Rifle Spread (Unscoped) – 1.4

 

Slug Rifle damage – 67  (60 current)
Slug Rifle Unscoped damage – 62  (57 current)

Min scoped damage – 43  (40 current)

Min unscoped damage – 41  (38 current)

Heat generation - 7.0  (7.25 current)

start.Fallof – 230m (260 current)
end.Fallof – 390m

 

Falloff damage curves for scoped Slug:

0-230m = 67 damage

230-260m = 65(current falloff start, 60 dmg early)

260-280m = 63

280-300m = 60

300-320m = 57

320-340m = 54

340-365m = 50

365-390m = 43

 

Falloff damage curves for Unscoped Slug:

0-230m = 62

230-260m = 61 (current falloff start, 57 dmg early)

260-280m = 60

280-300m = 59

300-320m = 56

320-340m = 53

340-365m = 49

365-390m = 41

 

 

Clearly see that optimal distance for shoot is about ~300m. On this distance you damage equal curren SS in game. On distance closer than 300m you gain buff in DPS and damge. on distance more far than 300m, you dps dropped (+ you can miss, actually 0.6-0.7 value will guaranteed you a hit from mid-range distances, but not when you stand on base and trying to shoot)

 

Now, DPS numbers

 

Before:
Ideal DPS before falloff 260m:

DPS Sabot+Slug = 39.6+52.17 = 88.84

DPS Unscoped = 29.3+49.57 = 78.87

 

far than 480m:

min DPS Sabot+Slug = 25+34.78 = 59.78

min DPS Unscoped = 20+33.07 = 53.07

After:

Ideal DPS before sabot start falloff (150m):

DPS Sabot+Slug = 36.67+58.29 = 94.96

DPS Unscoped = 33.66+53.94 = 87.6

 

250-260m distance DPS:

DPS Sabot+Slug = 36.3+56.55 = 92.85

DPS Unscoped = 29.04+53.07 = 82.11

 

300-320m distance DPS:

min DPS Sabot+Slug = 34.65+49.59 = 84.24

min DPS Unscoped = 27.06+48.72 = 75.78

 

far than 430m:

min DPS Sabot+Slug = 23.1+37.41 = 60.51

min DPS Unscoped = 18.15+35.67 = 53.82

 

 

What we have in total?
- SS have more DPS and deal more damage on distance close than 260m. it is most effective range on most of maps.
- SS deal a slightly less damage (-4 dps) on 320m (probably, 320m +/- equal the full prosk bridge lenght)

- SS dps and damage start highly decreased after 320+ meters.
- Heat generation is more effective, and allow him make a several additional shots before overheat, his total potencial damage will be highly increased. it compensate some damage for you miss due by spread (but actually with 0.6-0.7 spread you not miss since 200-250m, it is very small value).

- sabot is very better accuracy without scope now. better for cqc (if compared with current values)

 

Changes in gameplay, Now SS have effective range around 200-320m (twice more than every other mech), and even more effective in close combat or 1vs1, if someone sneak to SS. because his damage higher, and overheat less.
But he is worse about 20-25% if shoot from very far distances (higher than 350-400m, which actually is a half of map distance)

for example, if SS trying to shoot from Origin statement to AA, it wiil be around ~300m.

Obviously, SA Hawkins, RPR, Slug, and KE also should be changed with similar logic.

 

2. Vertical aiming angle.

 

Second thing which is extremely stupid, and allow Berserkers and Sasaults shred noobs in cqc.
It is a perfect example, how old general game-designer don’t understand nothing in hawken gameplay.

Up and Down Vertical aiming angle SHOULD BE THE SAME!

 

 

3. Bruiser, Hellfire and Seeker.

 

I talk about it early (many times) Bruiser and HF rockets should be a little buffed. Rocketeer Seeker rockets should be nerfed a little to compensate Bruiser and HF buff.

 

https://community.pl...-to-change-its/

 

 

4. Weapon spread while flying.

 

Another thing in air combat, with hidden game mechanics which old ADH game-designers not see (or maded it special! I don’t know)
Early when you flying, your weapon spread was increased. It working with the very simple idea. When you stand on ground and use boost, you can’t shoot. When you flying, you have the same speed with boost, but you can shoot while you move.
Early Additional weapon spread compensate this. Now weapon don’t have a dynamic spread and this point has become unbalanced.

 

 

5. Assault, TV and G2-Assault Abilities.

 

Assault and TV abilities should be nerfed to 25-30% cooling. And 100% cooling if you overheat (now it is about 50-60%, I think). Assault can deal ~1.4k damage before overheat. And ~2.1k with ability. With this nerf, maximal damage before overheat can be closer to ~1.8k

Obviously, G2-Assault ability no need to change, because it more weaker than other.
This changes also make a difference between Assault and G2-Assault.

 

 

6. Raider ability.

 

Raider walking speed shouldn’t increase when Raider use ability. Only Boost speed. i'm too lazy to explain why.

 

 

7. G2-Raider Ability.

 

G2-Raider shouldn’t blip on radar when activate Ability. Still think it is a bug.

 

 

8. Incinerator DPS, and potential Damage. Damage to battleship.

 

I talking about it many times. This mech have a tonnes drawback, and ruined many aspects of game. tonnes of DPS, Damage before overheat, Damage Dealer + buffer/debuffer in one face. Extremely fast fire rate from SAARE, Broken overheat mechanics, Damage to battle ship in siege. Too many broken thing in this mech in one moment. It should be changed. Nerf, rebalance, whole change mechanics, it doesn’t matter. This mech is broken and it needs to be fixed.
And please, Don’t use stupid argument like “Incinerator don’t have 210 DPS in real fight!” Yes, maybe incin don’t have it, and have only 100-120 real DPS. But Brawler also don’t have 145 DPS which it have on paper, will be good if his real DPS around 50 (if not less). Because most of time Flak doesn't deal 120 damage for every shot. So, no need to tell me a bullsh!t, this mech cause problems in gameplay in many situation, and this is main reason why it should be changed/fixed. This mech always be a problem if we leave it as is, in current statement.

 

https://community.pl...age-2#entry9341

 

https://community.pl...rator-gameplay/

 

 

9. Orb-lording.

 

It can be changed. Each mech can consume only one Orb in one time. When first Orb consumed, mech start consume energy from second Orb. This is one of the balance issue which should be changed several times and tested. change it once, and than look how it working in next month, if it is nerfed to much, trying to make first orb consume speed to 100%, and to 50-60% for other nearbly Orbs (for example), etc.

 

 

10. Encouraging death Internals.

 

It should gone. Composite armor should be remaked or even deleted from game.

 

 

11. Air-180 internal.

 

Mech should continue falling and burn fuel when you use shift+s in air. not a big deal, but it is a stupid bug. one of the perfect examples, how devs trying to change core mechanics created by previous game-designers (which know how this game should be, talking about beta) and causes tonnes of bugs and defferent exploites in ascension :?

 

 

12. Player GUI crosshairs/reticules.

 

All Crosshairs customization should be free. It is very stupid sold it for HC (or even MC, lol). Nobody spent MC on this. Old Devs take nice crosshair which we have before, just let the players use crosshairs which they want. In every game which I know, change crosshair it is an option in game menu (or players modding). It is very stupid trying to sold it. Very stupid and.

 

 

13. More smooth Falloff for some weapon.

 

Many weapons have an extremely “sharp” Falloff damage. For example Flak, you can deal 120 damage at point blank, but if you enemy stand far than 35 meters you start deal 10-20 damage to him. lol. Meh. It is not how it should be. Make it more “smooth” for example, flak deal ~60 damage on 35-40 meters, ~30 damage on 60-65m, and 10 damage if enemy stand too far.

 

 

14. MG-Turells and R-turret item throw.

 

It should be throwable like it was before. Like a HE-Grenade or Shield, when you hold button longer, you can throw it far. It will be good if MG-Turret can be a “sticky”, for example, you can throw it on ceiling or wall and it stick to it, and start to shoot in your enemy from unexpected places.

 

 

15. A/B/C class Dodge distance and Dodge speed.

 

It can be the same with A-class to every mech. Dodge distance and Dodge speed. Probably it required a slightly HP nerf to C- and B-classes, but every player should have an equal chances to dodge enemies attack, doesn’t matter which mech you use.

 

 

Edit:

 

16. FOV

 

Max. Default FOV should be 120, to more comfortable gameplay.


17. Infiltrator decloak shouldn't be based on heat
 

One that should be added is heat-adding items and weapons (SAARE) knock the cloak off an infil which is stupid and probably due to some wonky coding to know if a mech shot or not based on heat generation.

 

 

18. Scanner
 

Do something with dis.

 

 

19. EOC and HEAT charging mechanism.

It is very uncomfortable weapon, because you always should hold LMB. very uncomfortable doing it continuously, and very uncomfortable shoot with this. doesn't matter charged/uncharged shoot you use, heat generation after shoot will be the same. let these weapons charged automatically, allows the player to only watch to "charging indicator" and easily shoot in "one click". without tiresome holding the button.
Old ADH devs delete almost all Hawken features, to make this game more "easy", but can't (or don't want) change stupid weapon mechanics, which is actually hard for average player? oh...

 

 

20. Different mouse sensitivity for Scope/Unscope

 

well...no more to say.

 

 

21. Training Ground

Return old training map. Or making Training on Prosk/Uptown map. People who start traning should see better part of Hawken, they need to see what awaits them in the real game. Current holo-level is suck like a hell.

 

 

22. HE-Grenade and ISM-Disruptor

 

HE-Grenade came from old-hawken. Now game is faster, walking is faster, mech is faster, but grenade not changes.
You should added text info about "grenade-charge" in description. Still not all players know that if you holding item button, you can shot grenade with faster speed and more far.
the same description should be added in many items, actually. like Shield or EMP.

And ISM-Disruptor. personally i think it is a little useless. but maybe i'm wrong. it is just a "panic button" when everyone think it is a EMP and dodge it. Maybe added "-5% armor" debuff while you under ISM affect will be a not bad decision.

 

 

23. Coop Bot Destruction / CoBD

 

I actually hate this mode, and think it is no need in hawken. But i know the way how to do it better.

Most of problem - CoBD dont have playability. i mean, you play in this mode one time, and you don't find nothing interesting in this mode again.
This game mode should have 2 Variants.

 

1 - Casual (Currently CoBD)

2 - Survival.
What difference with current mode?
Enemy Waves should be Infinity. Every 5 waves enemies will be stronger. when/If you beat all 25 waves you start from 1 wave with more stronger enemies and bosses.
You team can use only 3-4 countermeasures in one match (i mean ressurect, team ressurect etc.)
than more waves you survives, than higher Reward you gain.

If say more simply: You can't win in this mode, you should Survive as many waves as you can, against strongest enemies and bosses.

Edited by nepacaka, 19 November 2015 - 03:44 PM.

[n3onfx]

Disagree with the Blitz walking speed and dodge reduction on A classes.

 

One that should be added is heat-adding items and weapons (SAARE) knock the cloak off an infil which is stupid and probably due to some wonky coding to know if a mech shot or not based on heat generation.

Edited by neon, 22 October 2015 - 01:46 AM.

[nepacaka]

One that should be added is heat-adding items and weapons (SAARE) knock the cloak off an infil which is stupid and probably due to some wonky coding to know if a mech shot or not based on heat generation.

ok. added.

Edited by nepacaka, 22 October 2015 - 01:47 AM.

[JeffMagnum]

I don't think you have any idea how weak Slug SS would be if the devs implemented your suggestions--the only reason it has high pinpoint hitscan burst is because it has the lowest DPS of any viable mech (EOC Rocketeer is lower by 2.6 but it's completely irrelevant) at 88.8 scoped and the lowest armor and movement speed of any B-Class. Also, why should Slug have the same range and spread as RPR when RPR has 65% more DPS?

 

People who say SS is an ezmode point-and-click adventure tend to be people who have virtually no firsthand experience with the mech. 

[nepacaka]

I don't think you have any idea how weak Slug SS would be if the devs implemented your suggestions--the only reason it has high pinpoint hitscan burst is because it has the lowest DPS of any viable mech (EOC Rocketeer is lower by 2.6 but it's completely irrelevant) at 88.8 scoped and the lowest armor and movement speed of any B-Class. Also, why should Slug have the same range and spread as RPR when RPR has 65% more DPS?

 

People who say SS is an ezmode point-and-click adventure tend to be people who have virtually no firsthand experience with the mech. 

 

One of variant which I personally prefer. Increase Sabot rifle Damage

also i say about decrease heatgeneration for these weapons, ie, increase DPS, Damage before overheat, but nerf guaranteed hit.

Edited by nepacaka, 22 October 2015 - 02:19 AM.

[thedark20]

TOW launcher needs a nerf, in all seriousness. His ridiculous reload speed, damage and travel speed are beyond ridiculous. Not talking about it generates nearly 0 heat, you can spam TOW's and kill everything in 2 shots. It makes grenade launcher look like a direct downgrade from the TOW.

Hitreg issues still exist, hitboxes sometimes don't fit with the in world model and makes scouts and other A Classes unfair to fight against, specially scouts.
With the dodge distance i don't agree at all, i think the only thing C-Classes need is a slight buff on his dodge distance. You eat secondary weapons' splash damage even if you try to dodge away.

[nepacaka]

You eat secondary weapons' splash damage even if you try to dodge away.

this is why it should be done

i'm not sure that TOW kill brawler in two shot :)
TOW also have smaller blast radius. and it generate more heat than other secondaries (except sabot).
Hitreg yes, but i think it is ping/servers problems, not a game balance/bugs actually.

Edited by nepacaka, 22 October 2015 - 03:53 AM.

[JeffMagnum]

also i say about decrease heatgeneration for these weapons, ie, increase DPS, Damage before overheat, but nerf guaranteed hit.

 

The improved heat gen and unscoped Sabot damage would be completely irrelevant compared to the hit Slug SS and Reaper would take from no longer being able to deliver precise burst at any range. 1.4 spread up from 0 doesn't seem like much at first glance, but it's huge when you consider that competent SS players need to land shots on enemies who poke their hitboxes out a few pixels beyond cover and hit fleeing mechs far in the distance that are able to avoid fire from other mechs on your team. According to Kopra's testing, Slug with 1.4 spread would have a shot group the size of an A-Class at roughly 250 m. 

 

 

If everyone stood out in the open all the time then that'd be one thing, but you're hardly ever able to see entire hitboxes for the fraction of a second you expose yourself to fire unless enemies are moving across areas without cover or don't know how to play. And what I've said here isn't even accounting for what the new falloff values would do.

 

[nepacaka]

1.4 spread up from 0 doesn't seem like much at first glance, but it's huge

 

yeah, i know it. i play on SS on beta, when it have a higher spread, and it was normal.

the main purpose added to Sabot a chance to miss from far distance.

 

make a SS 0 spread it is a worse way to balance it. just delete something, if it not working! Like devs always do.
it is just wrong.
 

And what I've said here isn't even accounting for what the new falloff values would do.

 

it shouldn't deal 100% damage from whole map distance. it is just wrong. on current moment SS actually don't have any falloff if shoot from optimal distance (i don't mean stand on base and trying shoot on AA, even with this distance between base and AA about ~300m, and sabot fallof is 320-450.)
if you just delete falloff feature from Sabot, nothing changed for SS. he is not notice any changes in the game. his damage not changed at all. this is why falloff distance should be decreased. this feature not working now. most of places on all maps shorter than 300m. probably, even shorter than 200m.

 

did you really think that falloff should working only if you shoot through whole map? Why SS actually need this feature if falloff never start working in 99% of cases? maybe better increase damage and trying to make a falloff damage really working, like it working for other bullet weapons?
 

 

SS players need to land shots on enemies who poke their hitboxes out a few pixels beyond cover and hit fleeing mechs far in the distance that are able to avoid fire from other mechs on your team.

 

yeah, i feel the same when i played on brawler with flak. they poke hitboxes, and not all my bullets hits enemy body even if stand not far, and i deal only 20 damage instead 120. i think it will be good if Flak have a 0 spread, because i can't deal whole damage to enemy.
it sound the same ;P

 

i also added to list
 

20. Different mouse sensitivity for Scope/Unscope

 

because i forgot about this feature for SS, it is needed
 

Edited by nepacaka, 22 October 2015 - 04:36 AM.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

TOW launcher needs a nerf, in all seriousness. His ridiculous reload speed, damage and travel speed are beyond ridiculous. Not talking about it generates nearly 0 heat, you can spam TOW's and kill everything in 2 shots. It makes grenade launcher look like a direct downgrade from the TOW.

This is a joke right?

[devotion]

This is a joke right?

tow is certainly on the strong side as far as secondaries are concerned.

[hellc9943]

reaper op plz nerf

[nepacaka]

tow is certainly on the strong side as far as secondaries are concerned.

not stronger than GL. +/-

effective range the same. after 60-70 meters A-class just can walking and evade your rocket. or change walking direction if you shoot ahead of the curve.

Edited by nepacaka, 22 October 2015 - 05:58 AM.

[brackets]

not stronger than GL. +/-

 

Faster reload time but same damage + more reliable at range means it's generally more useful than GL.

 

GL is more specialised: close range + corners

[_incitatus]

Number 19 would be fantastic.  I don't play EOC as much as I want because it causes me pain to hold the charge down after a few rounds. 

 

21.  Fix G2 Raider ability so that it dos not show up on radar.

 

22.  Fix Inf cloak so that you can charge weapons while boosting under cloak OR remove fuel consumption and make it timed like before.

[nepacaka]

reaper op plz nerf

 

also, about reaper ability, it probably working with AMSAR or RPR if you stand on 100+ meters, but it is absolutely no need with slug (cuz it have 0 spread :D)

another example how one small changes broken several things along the chain. another example of bad game-design.

 

 

Faster reload time but same damage

 

smaller blast radius than GL

[nepacaka]

21.  Fix G2 Raider ability so that it dos not show up on radar.

 

22.  Fix Inf cloak so that you can charge weapons while boosting under cloak OR remove fuel consumption and make it timed like before.

 

21. is already exist. read ?7.

 

Fix Inf cloak so that you can charge weapons while boosting

 

it can be done automatically, if EOC and Heat charging mechanism will be changed like i say in ?19

[_incitatus]

21. is already exist. read ?7.

 

it can be done automatically, if EOC and Heat charging mechanism will be changed like i say in ?19

 

Lol, I missed No. 7

 

I want to be able to charge while boosting if cloaked.  Autocharging is in addition to this.  It was like this for a short while when they changed the cloak to consume fuel and then they changed it.  It made Alpha strikes with EOC much more fun because you could cloak and boost to your enemy and then unload 6 pucks without slowing down.

Edited by (thc)_incitatus, 22 October 2015 - 06:12 AM.

[TronX33]

Erm... the Sabot Rifle has terrible hipfire accuracy, except n some shots that go where you want them , which is rarely.

[StubbornPuppet]

Great charts and analysis!  It's nice to see intelligent people using their skills to dig into the game and balance.

 

I do want to make a humorous observation:

It almost seems like nobody will be happy until there is only one mech and one primary and secondary weapon in the whole game.  :P

[Nept]

And immediately the thread was wrong.

[nepacaka]

Great charts and analysis!  It's nice to see intelligent people using their skills to dig into the game and balance.

 

I do want to make a humorous observation:

It almost seems like nobody will be happy until there is only one mech and one primary and secondary weapon in the whole game.  :P

i see it is humorous about one mech with one weapon, if being seriously.
i can explain my thoughts about this on Sabot Rifle example.

 

weapons in Hawken divided on two group. 1 - Hitscan, 2 - ballistic

every group their own features.

1) Hitscan weapons - instant bullets. spread which not allow you always hit target (even if you can).

2) Ballistic - mostly don't have a spread. have a different bullet speed or trajectory.
when devs delete spread from Sabot, they added a Third group of weapon.
3) Hitscan #2 - instant bullets. No spread which allow you always hit target (if you can)

1 and 3 weapons group looks the same, but they actually a different. this method called a "crutch". Bad programmers use a "crutch" when they can't solve a main problem. they close a game mistake(logical error) in the game, but the problem is - that in the future, when you trying to change something else, it will cause even more problems with balance.

Devs should use legal parameters, with which you can balance weapon, like spread/firerate/damage/falloff, but not just delete it, because it is easier way.
This is why it is stupid. This is why devs should not use the same methods like ADH (Oh! Dynamic spread was a hard to balance, so, we just delete it!). Because every stupid decision just added problem to your in future.

Currently Sabot Rifle balance - it is a crutch. Devs should rework it to normal state.

Maybe my method not ideal, and i can mistake in some numbers (cuz it required test) but it better than just delete something if you don't know how to balance it. =/

 

 

Sabot Rifle has terrible hipfire accuracy

 

vulcan have a terrible accuracy. sabot have a perfect accuracy. even SA hawkins have a terrible accuracy, if compared with sabot :?

Edited by nepacaka, 22 October 2015 - 06:55 AM.

[nepacaka]

added training room issues (yeah, i think it is worse), and HE grenade and ISM thoughts.

 

Great charts and analysis!  It's nice to see intelligent people using their skills to dig into the game and balance.

 

I would not want that Reloaded make the same mistake like Wargaming devs in WoT. They did not listen to the players, and now the game has a serious problem with balance. They actually know that game have problems, but they never admit their mistakes, because if they do, it will mean that they screwed up ... it will be a fail and big blow for their ego.

Better to let the developers will think thoroughly before (if) they make major changes. Reloaded can afford to ignore the old devs mistakes and correct them without remorse, even if it required to return some of the things which been deleted by ADH

To be honest, i want to believe that Reloaded changed hawken concept totally. yeah, i know it is sound like impossible, but who knows? :D

it probably will be easier to rework it, than fix all current hawkens problems.
 

Edited by nepacaka, 22 October 2015 - 07:36 AM.

[Sylhiri]

Ok, actually only 15. But i actually forgot some small thing from this list which i want to tell.
 

^ DOUBLE LIES

 

19. EOC and HEAT charging mechanism.

It is very uncomfortable weapon, because you always should hold LMB. very uncomfortable doing it continuously, and very uncomfortable shoot with this. doesn't matter charged/uncharged shoot you use, heat generation after shoot will be the same. let these weapons charged automatically, allows the player to only watch to "charging indicator" and easily shoot in "one click". without tiresome holding the button.
Old ADH devs delete almost all Hawken features, to make this game more "easy", but can't (or don't want) change stupid weapon mechanics, which is actually hard for average player? oh...
 

 

If this was put into the game I would want this as an option. I like having more control over my weapon and the continuous holding doesn't bother me as much as continuous clicking (like AM-SAR).

[brackets]

Considering that the top players are typically more accurate with the TOW launcher and the Heat cannon than they are with the Sabot / Ke-Sabot and the Slug rifle; I'm not convinced that 0 spread on sniper weapons is a problem - they're supposed to hit distant targets accurately.

Edited by brackets, 22 October 2015 - 08:41 AM.

[nepacaka]

^ DOUBLE LIES

No! after #15 I write a small text "edit:"
You just did not read :D

And actually, you no need clicking every time, if you want you can hold button and it start shoit uncharged shot automatically (like mini-flak), or you can click if you want. If you not click, heat will be charged automatically. Easy system.

Edited by nepacaka, 22 October 2015 - 10:01 AM.

[-Tj-]

10. Encouraging death Internals.

 

It should gone. Composite armor should be remaked or even deleted from game.

 

 

12. Player GUI crosshairs/reticules.

 

All Crosshairs customization should be free. It is very stupid sold it for HC (or even MC, lol). Nobody spent MC on this. Old Devs take nice crosshair which we have before, just let the players use crosshairs which they want. In every game which I know, change crosshair it is an option in game menu (or players modding). It is very stupid trying to sold it. Very stupid and.

 

17. Infiltrator decloak shouldn't be based on heat
 

 

19. EOC and HEAT charging mechanism.

It is very uncomfortable weapon, because you always should hold LMB. very uncomfortable doing it continuously, and very uncomfortable shoot with this. doesn't matter charged/uncharged shoot you use, heat generation after shoot will be the same. let these weapons charged automatically, allows the player to only watch to "charging indicator" and easily shoot in "one click". without tiresome holding the button.
Old ADH devs delete almost all Hawken features, to make this game more "easy", but can't (or don't want) change stupid weapon mechanics, which is actually hard for average player? oh...

 

10: How many players use this? I don't think I've ever used it on any of my setups. Just feels like there are better internals to use in its place.

 

12: Definitely should be either free OR change the defaults back to the old version or the circles with the dot. The current default is absolute trash.

 

17: Absolutely. Cloak being deactivated by heat was an intentional new design when the Incin and Heat Charge were introduced (at least, that's how I remember it... I was pretty pissed about it).

 

19: Not a good idea. Automatically charging HEAT cannon would make the weapon detectable audibly everywhere. It's better being able to charge it on demand. EOC builds heat faster if fired fully-charged. Like EOC, I prefer to keep it charged and fire on demand.

[Silent_]

RNG is bad, if you really need to nerf ss then do something like full damage only when fully scoped instead of luck based spread.

 

Bringing back accuracy penalty while hovering or some other sort of penalty sounds good. There should be drawbacks for simply holding spacebar to make oneself harder target to hit with projectile weapons, especially with ac reward is out of proportion with skill required to use.

 

Do not touch my raider but fix g2 raider.

 

Inci is broken.

 

air 180 bug is useless. This internal could be fused with fall damage negation to make it more useful.

 

Crosshairs should indeed be free. In addition color should not be tied to friendly color. Also, make it option to scale crosshairs instead of just one that scales with weapon accuracy.

 

Different zoom sens would be nice. I also dislike how sens keeps changing while zooming in. Also worth noting that with lower fov zooming in is faster, atleast visually.

 

As for auto charging, I should probably mention that you can already do this, easily.

[nepacaka]

10: How many players use this? I don't think I've ever used it on any of my setups. Just feels like there are better internals to use in its place.

* doesn't matter how many players use it. It working bad, it is good tactic for zerg-rush in solo random, or in 1v1. Sometimes for ololo-raiders, or c-class.
You throw three orb, fight, than death, and you came even more stronger in next time, and reload your items. It is bad.


19: Not a good idea. Automatically charging HEAT cannon would make the weapon detectable audibly everywhere. It's better being able to charge it on demand. EOC builds heat faster if fired fully-charged. Like EOC, I prefer to keep it charged and fire on demand.

*as someone above say, it can be like option. But actually many people don't love with these weapons, it just hard to use. Easy to use - hard to mastery. That how it should be. But not, hard to use - hard to mastery.
+ you know how this weapon hard against flying targets, devs should make something with this too, because gameplay meta was changed, but these weapon not. Thear weapons are dinosaurs in hawken, and should be upgraded for new flying combat.

[nepacaka]

RNG is bad, if you really need to nerf ss then do something like full damage only when fully scoped instead of luck based spread.

* I don't want nerf if, I want change it.

Bringing back accuracy penalty while hovering or some other sort of penalty sounds good. There should be drawbacks for simply holding spacebar to make oneself harder target to hit with projectile weapons, especially with ac reward is out of proportion with skill required to use.

*yeah, it will be good, but your forgot about one mech without spread :D
It can't work if all mech have a additional spread %, but not SS! Now you see why I want to change it to normal values?
It what I talking about before. When devs making stupid balance decisions, it always added new problems in future, if you trying to change/fix/upgrade another things. This is why ascension design is bad. It have too much "crutches".

[Nept]

All the other mechs have spread BECAUSE THEY ARE USING RAPID-FIRE WEAPONRY OR SHOTGUNS.

[nepacaka]

As for auto charging, I should probably mention that you can already do this, easily.

I suppose with scripts. But if you know how, you can tell me. Because I don't know how. And probably 99% players and newcomers also don't know how...

[nepacaka]

All the other mechs have spread BECAUSE THEY ARE USING RAPID-FIRE WEAPONRY OR SHOTGUNS.

Reaper KE. Why it have spread?
SA Hawkins is actually very accuracy on far distance if you stand. Nothing bad here, if it have a small spread.

Edited by nepacaka, 22 October 2015 - 11:09 AM.

[JeffMagnum]

RNG is bad, if you really need to nerf ss then do something like full damage only when fully scoped instead of luck based spread.

Firing while not scoped currently has a 3 damage/5% penalty for Slug and a 22 damage/20% penalty for Sabot. I also agree about RNG being frustrating especially on a sniper class.

Also worth noting that with lower fov zooming in is faster, atleast visually.

Sabot gains full accuracy at the same moment regardless of FOV settings according to my testing a while ago.

[WillyW]

1. Agree

2. Disagree. See #4.

3. Agree. Dumbfire missiles should shoot faster and do more damage. That is all.

4. Agree. Weapon spread when flying should be MUCH more. Air-zerker is ridiculous right now.

5. Agree.

6. Disagree. Raider is hard to play to begin with. No need to nerf walk speed.

7. Agree

8. Unsure. Incinerator is very hard to master. A lot going on that you need to balance, more than most other mechs.

9. Agree. Good idea, but maybe just fix the orb-lording internals.

10. Disagree. It works well for new players.

11. Agree. If you need to set as an internal, you shouldn't be penalized for it.

12. Partial agree. Lower HC cost and it makes sense.

13. Disagree. 100%.

14. Disagree. Turrets are actually becoming OP at the moment. They need to include a heat mechanic. The maximum sustain damage is insane when being abused.

15. Agree.

16. Disagree. It is fine the way it is. More FOV means an unfair advantage for players with bigger monitors that can support it.

17. Agree.

18. Agree. Just remove it from the game, and all associated history of it's existence.

19. Disagree.

20. Agree.

21. Agree.

22. Agree. I didn't even know that until right now.

[Silent_]

I suppose with scripts. But if you know how, you can tell me. Because I don't know how. And probably 99% players and newcomers also don't know how...

 

Not scripts, just by reversing fire command in .ini.

[Silent_]

Firing while not scoped currently has a 3 damage/5% penalty for Slug and a 22 damage/20% penalty for Sabot. I also agree about RNG being frustrating especially on a sniper class.


Sabot gains full accuracy at the same moment regardless of FOV settings according to my testing a while ago.

 

I know, but there could be some minimum time in zoom required before full damage kicks in. Because of its instant, you get full damage by scoping for short moment and then firing. Kopra told me that with scripts you can make it so that it zooms in, fires after 1ms, and zooms out. And apparently that doesnt even visually display zoom. With reaper there even isnt any drawback since its secondary is so accurate even out of zoom.

Edited by Silent_, 22 October 2015 - 11:14 AM.

[nepacaka]

WillW, what bad in #2? It is stupid now, when someone stand on your head, and can shoot in you, but you can shoot in him, because can't look up?

[nepacaka]

Also, now about ballistic bullet for Sabot? I mean, no more hitscan. Just a big high speed bullet. I think devs can do dis.

[_incitatus]

Inci is broken.

 

 

As for auto charging, I should probably mention that you can already do this, easily.

 

Heh.

 

Can you elaborate on where specifically this change needs to be made in the ini?