96 replies to this topic

[CraftyDus]

You're right Crafty.  It isn't THAT much different, but why does it seem so much worse?  Is it my unacknowledged butthurtedness about the removal of the Flak Scout that is clouding my feelings?

 

If you love flak cannons on an A class, they cranked the scout up to 11 by giving it 2 FLAK SHOTGUNS and gave it an exclusive cool new skin which is an eyeball that can be adjusted to look bloodshot to go with our THC team logo.

 

TBH putting tow rockets on so many mechs back in the day was pretty uninspired imho.

[_incitatus]

If you love flak cannons on an A class, they cranked the scout up to 11 by giving it 2 FLAK SHOTGUNS and gave it an exclusive cool new skin which is an eyeball that can be adjusted to look bloodshot to go with our THC team logo.

 

TBH putting tow rockets on so many mechs back in the day was pretty uninspired imho.

 

Wait... they srsly put dual FLAK on a Scout?

[_incitatus]

To be honest, I don't know how truthful or facetious you are being, but i believe there is truth in what you are implying.
Each of us has a preferred play style along with mechs and loadouts that we find a comfortable fit for us and how we play the game.
Taking away our preferred mech, primary weapon, items and internals also takes away much of the allure of Hawken for many of us.
I understand the relaunch is the culmination of many combined forces and circumstances beyond our control and that it is, at this point, the only road foward, but I am still saddened by the loss of this functionality in the short term... especially if feature parity is inevitable. Obviously, we all hope the bugs, balance and community consensus are all addressed before the PC patch is released.

'Cause, I want my Assault, with SMC and Tow, with my preferred items and internals depending on maps and enemy composition...not a G2 Assault, not a CRT with 40 fewer hitpoints, no choice of items or internals, and a screen for a head, that can't be changed. :(

 

I was being slightly sarcastic about the Flak Scout.  TBH, I thought I would be more upset about it than I am - which is why I think perhaps it is clouding my feelings about Howken and I just don't see it.  I mean, I've only logged 640 hours on one of my Scouts and probably easily over 700 hours across my duplicates and alt accounts.

 

But, there's still an EOC Infil so it will be ok. 

 

But after reading Crafty's post it got me thinking about what it is exactly that is rubbing me the wrong way regarding the console monetization and G2 mechs, because it isn't that much different than PC Hawken.

[dorobo]

two flaks or miniflaks no matter but what is the point of it? You just have to push two buttons instead of one and get back into cover...maybe you can shoot just one if overheating or shoot two targets with each but thats it and tow/flak scout just feels so nice and is a blast to play.

[CraftyDus]

 tow/flak scout just feels so nice and is a blast to play.

 

A blast to play.

The charge was tailor-made for the flak-scout aficionados and dm-junkies.

They really took good care of you guys with this mech.

It is among the coolest new mechs hawken has ever had.

[brackets]

Here's my problem with the console update:

 

I don't like that G2 mechs are upgrades to G1 mechs - that they have better stats, stronger internals, and more items. I don't like that these better mechs are locked behind long grind-walls. I wouldn't like that even if you couldn't bypass the grinding by spending cash/premium currency - but I like it even less because you can.

 

Some people have argued that skill overcomes the mechanical advantage offered by G2 mechs - and they're right; Hawken is a skill-based game and you're never going to pay your way to the top. Whilst G2 mechs do unarguably provide an advantage, skilled players know the game well enough to play around any mechanical imbalances.

 

But the corollary to this is that new players face an even greater challenge learning the game. Not only are their opponents more skilled, but the game is imbalanced in their opponents' favour because their opponents have better/stronger/more stuff that they don't. And it's this point which capnjosh is referring to when he says "New players feel like they can't compete."

 

Is this strictly an issue of pay to win? No - it's not. I mentioned above that I wouldn't like it even if the option to spend cash didn't exist. Nonetheless, it's this issue which capnjosh calls "thinly veiled 'pay to win,'" because a player's options are either to compete at a mechanical disadvantage for a really long time in order to unlock better stuff and begin to compete on a level playing field, or to spend cash to start on a level playing field immediately.

 

Here's what I want to see changed:

 

I want G2 mechs and G1 mechs to be equally viable. The developers say "30 mechs!" - I want to see 30 balanced mechs, not 15 mechs which can be upgraded.

• Instead of only increasing stats for G2 mechs, increase some and decrease others. E.g. "the G2-Boot chassis sacrifices armour and durability for a faster boost speed and a larger fuel tank."
• Put different items or internals on G1 and G2 mechs so they feature different playstyles. For example, replace the Hologram with a HE-charge on one of the Infiltrators.
• Allow items and internals to be fully upgraded to level 3 on both G1 and G2 mechs.

Additionally, I want new players to start with a fully upgraded G1 CR-T Recruit, and I want the G2 CR-T to be unlocked for free after completing the tutorial (or maybe better yet - in the tutorial to give new players a better understanding of the progression featured in Hawken). 

 

These changes might not appease everyone complaining - but I think they would go a long way towards improving upon what the console update has to offer.

Edited by brackets, 12 July 2016 - 08:47 AM.

[ARCH3TYP3]

A blast to play.
The charge was tailor-made for the flak-scout aficionados and dm-junkies.
They really took good care of you guys with this mech.
It is among the coolest new mechs hawken has ever had.

But isn't mini flak, despite its name, completely opposite of flak?
Guys who play flak Scout are 100% burst; playing corners and using intermediate movement on cool down until releasing another BURST of damage.
Mini flak, in contrast, is a full sustain weapon; it does damage by holding it on the enemy over time as a rapid fire shotgun.
To me, dual mini flaks could not be more different than a flak scout...right...?

Edited by ARCH3TYP3, 17 July 2016 - 11:25 AM.

[CraftyDus]

Fire both and it's a robust burst with a cooldown, fire staggered and it fits a sustain narrative.
It is literally both or either depending on what you bring to the equation as a player.
It's really cool.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

I can play miniflak as if it were flak, kinda. This might be a cool thing to play.

[DallasCreeper]

You're right Crafty.  It isn't THAT much different, but why does it seem so much worse?  Is it my unacknowledged butthurtedness about the removal of the Flak Scout that is clouding my feelings?

You've still got Super-Alpha-Strike EOC Infil.

[DeeRax]

Fire both and it's a robust burst with a cooldown, fire staggered and it fits a sustain narrative.
It is literally both or either depending on what you bring to the equation as a player.
It's really cool.

Man, you are really selling me on this thing. And I don't even really play a-classes typically.

I really want to know what the dual-EOC thing is all about as well.

[_incitatus]

You've still got Super-Alpha-Strike EOC Infil.

EOC was my first love...

I'm honestly not that upset about losing the flak scout. Supposedly, we get to keep our legacy mechs right? So, there's a chance I'll still get to pilot it after the patch. We'll just have to wait and see.

The concept of the G2 mechs bothers me. I don't like what they did there.

[LaurenEmily]

I'm so happy all of this is happening right now, everytime the old vets talk about old hawken or the poor dev communication from the past i feel like such a fuzzy bunny not having been around for any of it but now i finally get the chance to properly hurt my butt and join them. Maybe some other newcomers can relate. This is great. It's the little things in life that count.

[crockrocket]

I'm so happy all of this is happening right now, everytime the old vets talk about old hawken or the poor dev communication from the past i feel like such a fuzzy bunny not having been around for any of it but now i finally get the chance to properly hurt my butt and join them. Maybe some other newcomers can relate. This is great. It's the little things in life that count.

 

Been around almost 2.5 years now and I feel more or less the same. I arrived at the very tail end of ADH/MTR.

[nepacaka]

Instead of only increasing stats for G2 mechs, increase some and decrease others. E.g. "the G2-Boot chassis sacrifices armour and durability for a faster boost speed and a larger fuel tank."

This is one thing which I really want to see in future hawken on PC.

[_incitatus]

• Instead of only increasing stats for G2 mechs, increase some and decrease others. E.g. "the G2-Boot chassis sacrifices armour and durability for a faster boost speed and a larger fuel tank."

 

I think this is a really good idea, it would reduce vertical progression and p2w and give us better variety.  Instead of "better" mechs, G2s are "different" mechs. 

[DallasCreeper]

Been around almost 2.5 years now and I feel more or less the same. I arrived at the very tail end of ADH/MTR.

Yeah, I joined in just after the Invasion update.