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Q: Is there anything we, as a community, can help you with?
A:
SpoilerActually, yeah, commentary on the weapons and things like weapon balance and mech balance. What I'd like to really see is stretching really far, almost like stretched to the absurd and say, Hey, imagine Hawken had this or that mechanic or system or type of a mech or something that's significantly different than anything that's in there, and kinda in the subjunctive think through it, almost like, hey there's a hypothesis, let's test it, sorta just step through . . . would this be interesting or would this be fun. Partly because you guys think of all kinds of crazy and cool stuff, and partly because you guys know this game inside and out, there's a passion for it, and reading stuff that's been written by people you may not agree with, but kinda go with, there are some really neat concepts that come out, and I find that really refreshing and interesting.
The other part is . .. we need like a way to identify certain threads that the community considers to be exceptionally salient about describing or addressing whatever issues there, and I'm not sure how to best do them, or how to best flag these things . . .maybe we should create a post and edit it on occasion and say, here are some really great threads you can read through.
So now is the time that we can really start collecting this stuff, and everybody's sorta been thinking through it . . . I know we've had a lot of conversations about it, and wrestling, and fighting about it, and that stuff, but now it's time to really distill it down to what we really think is good.
So, we're going to be looking at this commentary from CapnJosh in Augmentia's interview as transcribed by FatNept.
I will be breaking this post up into several sections on weapon and mech balance before looking at stretchy ideas, and finally a list of community generated topics that are worth reading from a development standpoint.
The purpose of the thread is to provide a reference point for current and future developers
There will also be big letters in comic sans.
It's worth noting that I'm typing this up myself. The more discussion there is, the less of a personal bias there will be. Of course, personal bias isn't a bad thing... when it's mine. Also I don't have intensive studies for every single weapon and mech. All of my mechs are at level 6, and I have duplicates of a couple, and I've played every weapon - but not each extensively. For instance, the T32 bolt on the Predator, I have perhaps 2 games playing, over a year ago. The listings as they are currently stated are my perceptions, which in some cases are lacking in evidence.
It is also a valid observation that many of these balance issues as they stand originally in this post reflect the mindset of an NA comp player. I believe this is a valid place to begin the debate.
The people who have the most information and the most familiarity synthesizing, forming hypothesis, and testing that information are players that have individually spent many hundreds to thousands of hours playing the game, talking about the game, thinking about the game, and trying new things in the game. The majority of people that fall into that category are competitive or otherwise highly ranked players. North America has the largest network of these players and thus the largest supply of evidence and experience. This does not mean that the standard NA Competitive opinion is always correct. It means that if we want to start the debate as close as possible to objective, this is the most reasonable place to start explicitly due to the quantity of information that has been exchanged and tested through this network.
If there are sufficient tests or evidence supporting an opposing position in game balance, this post WILL be edited to reflect that.
While I'm more involved with this community than the great majority of players in the game, I have not read every thread ever. This thread is about community perception and discussion and if you are able to string a few words together about something you enjoy or dislike or disagree with in this topic, please do so. HOWEVER, if you are going to speak on issues that require the consideration of numerical information of weapons, PLEASE utilize Hawken's Salty Stats when available.
WEAPON BALANCE
Told you.
XT variants found under mechs.
Primary Burst
(Where widely accepted or hotly debated topics of burst primary weapons go. PN-223 goes here.)
Breacher
No changes listed
There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the Breacher - it's relatively well balanced. It is worth noting that it is considered one of the most fun weapons to play with and the preferred weapon of most high level predator pilots.
EOC Repeater
Minor changes listed
The EOC Repeater is considered underpowered by most of the community. The most common suggestion is to increase the projectile travel speed. The most likely to fix the weapon is to increase the DPS. The current DPS is 52 which is on the lowest tier of primary weapons in terms of DPS. Every single primary weapon is capable of outputting a higher DPS than the EOC repeater. It is considered to have the largest burst, but the output is not instantaneous - it both requires travel time and time to release all six projectiles in a linear (repeater) fashion. It is worth noting that it is considered one of the most fun weapons to play with.
Alternate suggestion: keep timing of weapon but add 4th mine to uncharged volley.
Flak Cannon
No changes listed
There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the Flak Cannon - it's relatively well balanced. It is worth noting that it is considered one of the most fun weapons to play with and the preferred weapon for most high level scout pilots.
Heat Cannon
No changes listed
There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the Heat Cannon - it's relatively well balanced. It is worth noting that it is considered one of the most fun weapons to play with as well as the preferred choice of most high level infil pilots despite the EOC being considered the more fun weapon to play with.
PN-223
Minor changes listed.
This weapon is only found on the Technician. The Technician also carries the Hawkins-RPR. While the PN-223 is listed here as a burst weapon, it is played as a sustained weapon. It is in most manners inferior to the Hawkins-RPR, though it does do more damage per shot, but with a slower firerate its DPS is much lower. It also has a slightly lower spread and takes longer to overheat according to salty stats. I personally was not able to replicate those stats when I played it, and found it overheated faster than the RPR - but that was a while ago. I have not been informed of any patches to the PN-223 since its release.
There are no specific changes found here, however current opinion is to give the PN-223 a more unique playstyle that caters to the fact that it is more of a burst weapon than the RPR.
Slug Rifle
No changes listed
There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the Slug Rifle - it's relatively well balanced. It is worth noting that it is considered the weapon of choice for most high level SS and Reaper Pilots.
T32-Bolt
No changes listed
There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the T32-Bolt - it's relatively well balanced.
Primary Sustain
(Where those who can't burst go. Miniflak goes here.)
AM-SAR
Minor changes listed
Good god what's with that smoke screen that it puts up? That's about it though. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the AM-SAR - it's relatively well balanced.
Assault Rifle
No changes listed
There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the AR - it's relatively well balanced.
B3-AR:BBY
Major changes listed
The B3-AR:BBY is found exclusively on the Incinerator and is only useful in conjunction with the SAARE Launcher. Its primary problem is underuse. The method in which one selects the primary for the Incinerator is largely, if not entirely based on how it interacts with the SAARE Launcher. However, it is an easy weapon to play with on the incinerator, and the cause of its use is as an entry level weapon to the Incin is justified. It allows continuous fire with the primary mode of the SAARE and minimal heat management. Similar to the Hellfires, it is not difficult to work, but provides a minimal level of reward. Suggestion: Because all three B3-AR weapons operate on the same principal - that is to provide ammunition for the SAARE Launcher, and there is only one B3-AR weapon that sees usage, I would like to see the B3-AR weapons alter the way in which the SAARE operates. The conjunction of the primary and secondary weapons on the Incinerator is unique, and I do not believe Adhesive properly explored the mechanic's potential. If all three weapons are to see use, they must be differentiated in terms of playstyle significantly, or else their benefit to the SAARE launcher will be the determining factor of weapon choice. It would be nice to see a weapon that promotes burst play with the incinerator. Suggestion found below: Cause the SAARE shots to ricochet or split into smaller balls of fire on impact or at launch. B3-AR:M4MA Major changes listed The B3-AR:M4MA is found exclusively on the Incinerator and is only useful in conjunction with the SAARE launcher. Its primary problem is underuse. The method in which one selects the primary for the Incinerator is largely, if not entirely based on how it interacts with the SAARE Launcher. Suggestion: Similar to the BBY, the M4MA needs a method to differentiate its playstyle from the PPA. The projectile nature and heat mechanic inherent in the M4MA have proven to be insufficient differentiations. I have no specific suggestions. Suggestion found below: Cause the SAARE shots to ricochet or split into smaller balls of fire on impact or at launch. B3-AR:PPA Minor changes listed The B3-AR:PPA is found exclusively on the Incinerator and is only useful in conjunction with the SAARE Launcher. The method in which one selects the primary for the Incinerator is largely, if not entirely based on how it interacts with the SAARE Launcher. It is presently the only primary that sees frequent use on the Incinerator due to its ability to supply the SAARE Launcher with a high enough heat generation to use the secondary fire mode of the SAARE without stop. Suggestion: In combination with alterations to the BBY and M4MA, make the PPA the first primary available to the Incinerator, thus retaining its base playstyle after alterations have been made to the other two weapons. Hawkins-RPR No changes listed There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the Hawkins-RPR - it's relatively well balanced. Mini Flak Cannon No changes listed There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the Mini Flak Cannon - it's relatively well balanced. Point-D Vulcan No changes listed There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the Point-D Vulcan - it's relatively well balanced. It is worth noting that it is the preferred weapon of most high tier Grenadier pilots, despite the Rev_GL being considered more fun to play with. Redox-02 No changes listed There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the Redox-02 - it's relatively well balanced. ReFLAK-35 No changes listed There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the ReFLAK-35 - it's relatively well balanced. Rev-GL No changes listed There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the Rev-GL - it's relatively well balanced. It is worth noting that it is considered one of the most fun weapons to play with. SA-Hawkins No changes listed There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the SA-Hawkins - it's relatively well balanced. It is worth noting that it is the preferred weapon of most high tier Brawler pilots, despite the Flak being considered more fun to play with. Seeker Major changes listed The seeker is found strictly on the Rocketeer. The seeker is considered underpowered due to its lack of speed by some and overpowered due to its similarity in DPS to the Heat Cannon in addition to its powerful homing feature. Some also consider it balanced. Suggestion: buff projectile speed, require crosshair to be directly on enemy in order to activate homing, potentially nerf fire rate. Alternate suggestion: Find a different weapon for rocketeer. Seeker is currently annoying to play against. Submachine Cannon Minor changes listed The SMC is found on the Assault, CRT, Bruiser, Vanguard, and Berserker. It has the fourth most powerful DPS in game after the Miniflak, Point-D Vulcan, and Charged SAARE Launcher. Unlike these three weapons, it is both a hitscan weapon and effective at most engagement ranges. Its DPS is only 5 higher than the Assault Rifle, but many would argue that the difference is very noticeable in a game where kills take multiple seconds. Suggestion: Extensive testing with different tweaks. The difference between SMC and AR is still fairly low, and any significant nerf to DPS will make the two even more identical than they already are, while a nerf to effective range would put it closer to the vulcan. Here's a graph by Kopra that illustrates the similarities.
Secondary Burst
(Where widely accepted or hotly debated topics of burst secondary weapons go.)
Corsair-KLA
No changes listed
There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the Corsair-KLA - it's relatively well balanced.
EOC Predator
No changes listed
There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the EOC Predator - it's relatively well balanced. It is worth noting that it is considered one of the most fun weapons to play with.
Grenade Launcher
Minor changes listed
The Grenade Launcher is found on the Grenadier, Infiltrator, and Vanguard. It is the TOW alternative. While they both deal the same damage on impact, the GL fires a slower travelling projectile in an arc with a wider explosive radius - however it fires every 2.5 seconds as opposed to the TOW's 2.25. Almost every mech is better off with the TOW launcher than the GL for this reason. Suggestion: Buff fire rate to TOW level. Hellfire Missiles Major changes listed The Hellfire Missiles are found on both the Bruiser and the Rocketeer. Similar to the seeker (also in need of major changes), the Hellfire Missiles possess a homing mechanic. Apart from this, their damage both in terms of burst and DPS is pitiful, comparable only to the Sabot Rifles and the KLA-XT found on the G2 Raider in DPS, and the SAARE, a sustained weapon, in burst potential. Most common suggestion: Buff errythang, but instead of a homing system, allow for laser guidance. Other common suggestion: Significantly increase travel speed of shotgun mode and decrease spread. Alternate suggestion: Substantially increase the burst damage of the weapon, and instead of the weapon utility being a lock on, have it fire a single hitscan or near hitscan projectile that the Hellfires with a large burst and damage radius lock onto, allowing for a great deal of burst suppression. Pressing the weapon utility again will fire a second projectile. Each projectile has a set lifespan, but can be fired at multiple times. KE-Sabot No changes listed There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the KE-Sabot - it's relatively well balanced. Sabot Rifle No changes listed There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the Sabot Rifle - it's relatively well balanced. TOW Rocket Minor changes listed The TOW Rocket is the single most common secondary weapon in the game - found on as many mechs as both the AR and the SMC. It is found on the Berserker, Scout, Assault, CRT, and the Brawler. The biggest gripe most people have with it is that it is too easy to use. it flies with near perfect accuracy at a high speed for a projectile with no necessary charge time, an extremely useful splash radius, and to top it off, a click to detonate mode. The second biggest gripe most people have with it is that it's found on so many mechs. Suggestion: Tweak a few things. Experiment. Just keep in mind it will effect a lot of good mechs. There's no consensus on a specific tweak that might work
Secondary Sustain
(AKA, the Helix Repair torch and SAARE)
Helix Repair Torch
Hotly Debated. No real consensus.
The Helix Repair Torch is found strictly on the Technician. It has two modes: Reconstructor and Deconstructor (Heals and Damage). The Deconstructor does low damage, but also gives limited heals to the operator. The Reconstructor is highly debated due to its dissimilarity with every weapon in the game, and the potential pubstomp combination of Tech-Incin. Suggestion: Nothing. This is a class based game and it is in need of diversity of playstyle. Medics are one of the most ubiquitous classes in class based games. SAARE Launcher Formerly hotly debated, current consensus is that it is largely balanced in objective game modes, but has the potential to be overpowered in TDM. The SAARE Launcher is found strictly on the Incinerator. It gives off heat to those in its splash radius and has two fire modes. In combination with the PPA, the only competitively used primary, the secondary (more damage per shot, same shot frequency) is the only mode used. It is the only weapon that with proper heat management can be fired indefinitely. The TDM specific issues that it faces are that it has the indefinite ability to provide heavy splash damage as well as heat to an entire team. I personally think it is useful for breaking up clusters of enemies, but with a technician in hand, the combination of the weapon's uses as well as the passive ability of the incinerator can make for an extremely potent mix. Suggestion: In combination with alterations to the Incinerator's primary weapons, make tweaks. Consider replacing the primary fire mode with something else, given that the PPA is the only primary to see significant use, and when using the PPA, the secondary fire mode is the only mode to see use, meaning that the primary fire mode sees almost no use at all. Common suggestion: Turn the SAARE's primary fire mode into something of a flamethrower.
MECH BALANCE
A Class
Berserker
Minor changes listed
The Berserker is one of four mechs that the word OP can be brought up on the forums without the speaker being immediately thrown out. It uses what is considered the easiest secondary to use effectively, as well as the easiest primaries to use. It also is in possession of perhaps the easiest ability to use, in which the Berserker receives a 15% damage boost for 6.5 seconds. Additionally, the mech possesses the highest health of any A class as well as the highest airspeed (by a HUGE margin - actually faster than the standard boost speed of any mech). Those are a lot of superlatives compiled into a single mech.
Suggestion: Reduce a superlative or two. Also reduce that airspeed by a little. There's a reason why mechs can't shoot while boosting.
Infiltrator
Minor changes listed
The Infiltrator, in addition to being in possession of two weapons that a buff could be argued for, has an ability plagued by its reliance on fuel. The infiltrator does have of the largest fuel tank of any A class, however its regeneration rate is rather low, and the ability is only available once every 40 seconds. The infil itself is mechanically not in any need of buffs or nerfs, but its ability needs looking at. Most common suggestion: Eliminate the ability's reliance on fuel and give it a time limit comparable to the current time limit set by the fuel tank. Alternate suggestion: Reduce the ability cooldown. Alternate suggestion: Reduce the ability cooldown by a little, and decrease the ability's consumption of fuel a little. Reaper Minor changes listed The reaper is the A class sniping mech. Mechanically, the mech is fine, as well as its weapons. However there are a couple suggestions floating around worth noting with respect to its ability and weapon utility. Unscoped, both the KE-Sabot (Secondary) and the Slug Rifle (Prestige Primary) do less damage than when they are scoped. From a strictly mechanical standpoint, this makes no sense, and is also frustrating at times due to the mech already being nerfed at close range due to its limited DPS. Suggestion: Stop this. The Reaper's ability is also considered the most boring to use. It provides 100% accuracy unscoped for a period of time - however, the Reaper's primary weapons already have very high accuracy, and it is only useful for the secondary which admittedly has a rather wide spread unscoped. The ability does see some use for this reason, however it is uninspiring, even moreso than the ever present damage buff ability. Suggestions on as to what would be appreciated. Suggestion found below: Swap the ability for tracking shots (whereby the individual that was hit appears on enemy radar for a period of time) or explosive rounds. Scout Debated subject. Current iteration is widely accepted as balanced. The Scout is complained about a lot unfortunately. The indirect reason that it is complained about is because the mech is so damn fun to play. It is also challenging to play well in a game with a wide variety of mechs, and as such it is most commonly played by high tier players as a mech to kind of take a breather with. Combine this with our current playerbase and you have the appropriate setup for a lot of scout stomps by proficient players. Suggestions: Finish the game, get more players. Nothing to do with the mech itself. Technician Debated subject. The debate regarding the Technician has little to do with gameplay balance and much more to do with what people would like Hawken to "feel like". Any valid criticisms of gameplay balance as relating to the Technician will go here.
B Class
Assault
Minor changes listed
The Assault is the second of four mechs that a person could reasonably describe as OP on the Hawken forums. This is because like the berserker, it has the highest health of its class (with the exception of the G2 variant, but that is a completely different ballgame), as well as the easiest to use primary and secondary weapons in the game. It does not have quite the same speeds as the Zerker, but it makes up for it with a surplus of health in combination with an ability that allows for it to stay in a firefight long after the enemy has overheated.
The reason some consider it OP is because it essentially has no weakness. Sure, an SS will dominate it in a long range, complete lack of cover game, but that sort of game is seldom seen, as no maps really allow for that. For the maps in Hawken, the Assault is competent at any range and any style of play, and perhaps more concerning, it can be used to greater effect than some of the specialists.
Suggestion: Lower the Assault's health by marginal increments until balance is achieved.
Alternate suggestion: Do nothing. Most people prefer to play other mechs anyway, and starting a new user off with a strong mech is a good move.
Bruiser
Minor changes listed
The Bruiser has the second fastest air speed in the game, faster than any boosting B class, and actually faster than a boosting Technician. This fact however, is relatively unknown and severely underutilized because despite that, the bruiser is essentially a worse version of the Assault. It possesses the same primary weapons, an ability that is at best "meh" and at worst completely useless, and instead of the TOW it gets Worst Shotgun (Otherwise known as the Hellfire Missiles).
Two things ought to be focused on in terms of the bruiser's balance, and the first is Hellfires. the Hellfire Missiles are the only secondary currently listed with "Major changes". Due to this, the second thing that needs to be looked at, the ability, must take a backseat until the HFs are fixed, and then work the ability to compliment them.
Suggestion: Balance Hellfire Missiles, then look at the ability.
Common suggestion: Buff the health a small amount.
CRT-Recruit
Comparable to Assault, but not considerable as "OP" due to weaker stats.
The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the CRT-Recruit - it's relatively well balanced. However, when considering alterations to the Assault, the CRT must also be considered. Adhesive backed themselves into something of a corner by creating perhaps the most iconic mech in the game, and then making it worse in most regards to the Assault. Nerfs to the assault are likely to make the two mechs even more similar, and as it is still possible to spend money on the CRT, this needs to be considered. No one wants to waste money on the same mech.
Suggestion: Stop allowing the purchase of the CRT. Keep it in the garages of the players that have it, but move it into the realm of the Cupcake, where it is the same mech, but a different chassis.
G2-Assault
Minor changes listed. Also a little bit of personality. Sorry.
The G2 Assault is intended as a pure DPS, no burst mech. That's fine. It's a little nooby in its playstyle but fun nonetheless - HOWEVER. HOW-fuzzy bunnyNG-EVER, this mech, with two machine guns based on the primary with the second highest DPS of all primaries, is out DPS'd by the stock assault wielding a Vulcan. That means that the Vulcan XT was so significantly nerfed from the regular Vulcan that a regular vulcan in combination with a weapon that does 55 DPS will outclass a pair of XTs by 20 DPS. That means that the damage output of a single Point-D Vulcan is only 34 points lower than TWO Vulcan XTs.
The DPS of a regular Vulcan is just over 121 damage per second. That's a lot of damage. I can understand why two at once might be overpowered. Why not knock it down a tad so that a pair of them maybe ties the SAARE launcher for DPS? Or something. Ok. Let's try taking off 20 DPS.
Nope.
The Vulcan XT has a DPS just over 77. 77. SEVENTY SEVEN. THAT MEANS A PAIR OF FREAKING HEAT CANNONS WILL OUT DPS A PAIR OF XTs.
DO YOU GET THAT?
Suggestion: BUFF THE DAMN DPS OF THE VULCAN XTS.
Predator
No changes listed
There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the Predator - it's relatively well balanced.
Raider
No changes listed
There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the Raider - it's relatively well balanced.
Sharpshooter
No changes listed
There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the Raider - it's relatively well balanced.
C Class
Brawler
Minor changes listed. Maybe.
The Brawler is the 3rd of 4 mechs that might be considered OP. However, it is a very close line. The mech has 800 health, which is more than double that of any A class. A small problem arises when considering the fact that the Brawler and the Scout, as well as the Brawler and Berserker can each possess the same weapon combinations. It is perfectly feasible for a Brawler to take on a pair of scouts with health to spare - though it will require superior heat management or accuracy to do so.
That being said, it suffers significantly from its ill equipped level of mobility, which while in a one versus one engagement, may not be the most crucial factor, but in a team game can make the Brawler a challenging mech to play.
Suggestions: Despite the Brawler's high health pool and powerful weapon combinations, it is limited by both its mobility and its low heat capacity. It is unlikely to actually be in need of a nerf despite legitimate claims of OPness in certain situations.
G2-Raider
Minor changes listed
The G2-Raider is simultaneously the slowest and fastest mech in the game. It is widely regarded as exceptionally difficult to pilot due to the XT variant of the KLA having an extreme cooldown at 3.75 seconds per shot - in exchange for a boost in damage (though the total DPS on the Raider is higher by about 30).
However, neither the difficulty of maneuvering the slowest mech in the game or wielding its slow but powerful weapons are what qualify it for changes.
The G2 Raider's ability mirrors that of the Raider. It makes you go fast. However, unlike the Raider, use of the ability automatically puts you on your enemy's radar and also consumes your fuel. This makes boosting while using the ability ineffectual as your fuel is then drained in mere moments, and it also makes this DPS challenged beast a giant target incapable of pulling any sort of trickery in a battle of burst.
Suggestion: First, remove the appearance of the G2-Raider from radar when using the ability. If the G2 can still be marked as underpowered, remove or decrease the ability's link to the fuel tank. (Or perhaps increase the fuel tank/rate of regeneration.)
Grenadier
Minor changes listed
The Grenadier is perhaps the most fun C class to play when using the Rev-GL. However, it deserves more than its current ability. Its ability is a damage+splash radius boost - but even with the splash boost, the Vulcan variant is still the more popular choice in competitive Hawken. The balance issue here is not that the mech is either over or underpowered, it's that the most boring weapon (objective) is the most commonly utilized.
Suggestion: Ultra Spam Ability. While preserving the notion of greater damage, the ability allows the user to increase the firerate without an increase in heat generation. Splash bonus optional. Now instead of your spam of Rev-GLs into a site just turning red and more scary, there's a lot more of them and they're still red and scary. The vulcan will still do the DPS it does under the boost, but the potential for "shock and awe" is increased under this version of the ability.
Incinerator
Minor changes listed
The Incinerator is the 4th of 4 mechs that can reasonably be described as OP. As mentioned in the weapons section, it is not consistently OP, and is actually considered relatively balanced - but still with the potential for being overpowered.
If balance tweaks are to be considered for the incinerator, they must be considered in terms of the weapons. The stats of the mech itself as well as its passive ability and active ability are rarely regarded as being particularly overpowered.
Rocketeer
Minor changes listed
The biggest problem with the Rocketeer are its weapons. It starts with the seeker which is atrocious, moves to the heat cannon which is a good weapon, but is kind of wonky in combo with the Hellfires, and then the EOC, which is one of the worst weapons in terms of utility as a thing that kills enemies in the game. Then there are the Hellfires. If you're interested in those, read the weapons section.
The real tweak the rocketeer needs is to its turret mode. All the turret mode does, other than a pretty minimal level of protection and seriously decreasing the mobility of the mech, is spam the F button. That's literally all it does.
Due to the Hellfires being in serious need of a rework, discussion on the Rocketeer's ability is premature, however it's something that needs to happen considering its severely underwhelming nature.
i only have one request, give rocketeer's turret mode the ability of multi lock
with the maximum lock on targets being the max amount of rockets, more of a support thing then a raw damage thing
Vanguard
No changes listed
There's nothing to see here yet. The community has no particularly strong feelings one way or another on the Vanguard - it's relatively well balanced.
OTHER BALANCE
Items, internals, and item/internal progression.
Health Orbs
This particular subject is beaten to death. There are a million ways to make them less powerful, but this is a master list of balance tweaks, and this shouldn't escape just because the horse is dead.
Common suggestion: Decrease amount of health in a dropped health orb and bring it in line with offensive items.
Common suggestion: Allow the operator to drain only one orb at a time.
Common suggestion: Decrease range that a dropped health orb can be absorbed from.
Scanner
Another beaten to death subject.
Common suggestion: Remove scanner.
Common suggestion: Decrease the period of time to 1-3 seconds, turning it into a single use item similar to a health orb or a detonator that works with information instead of health.
Common suggestion: Disallow seeing through walls.
Common suggestion: Force the scanner to work as a ~3 second pulse giving you only static views of the battlefield every 3 seconds.
ltem/Internal Progression
Slightly less beaten to death, but no less important.
Presently, items and internals are unlocked at specific player levels. This encourages wasteful purchasing of MK1 items and basic internals, and also temporarily sets up a significant portion of the game behind a paywall. That's bad. I'm aware that there are presently technical difficulties surrounding this progression that need to be addressed, but again, this is a list of game balance issues, and that's one of them.
STRETCHY IDEAS
Ideas that are kind of way out there, but provide some insight into the creativity that could be implemented in Hawken.
This section needs some work, as I don't spend too much time in the Suggestions subforum. To start, I've just got a few of my own threads.
These particular ideas are highly "what if" and are intended to stretch the limits of what an internal can do. Some of these require the usage of a new button, which, while is not a problem for my well endowed Razer Orbweaver, might force some users to struggle.
A New Take on How Abilities Function
This topic is strictly relative to an ability for a proposed G2 Infiltrator, but in general application could light up some previously hidden corners.
A suggestion that goes hand in hand with this, brought up by JackVandal below, is to modify the already questionable use of the turret mode to give an AoE team effect. Given that turret mode is not time restricted, these benefits would have to be minimal, but it's worth considering that teammates looking to use these AoE buffs would be limited by the speed of the turret mode.
CTF and CTF variants are regarded as some of the best game modes ever. Hawken doesn't have them. A brief summary of why it doesn't and an idea to fix that.
COMMUNITY CANON
Those exceptionally salient threads? They go here.
Lumi's Framework for Internals
For the sake of stability, this really should be ported over to these forums. This is a powerful and in depth examination into the ideal make up of internals and is advised reading for any Hawken Theorycrafter.
Yup. No. That's me. Sorry not sorry. This is a list of necessary modifications to the game that need to be addressed prior to release.
Jeff's Stupidly Well Done Thread on Community Opinions
Jeff did a thing. He constructed some polls, and then made them visual, and then got a lot of likes. For good reason.
Sometimes Nept knows what he's saying. This is a discussion based around the fall of Adhesive and Hawken and overall is a well constructed critique of some of the greater difficulties that Hawken brought upon itself.
Archmech's Compilation of Map Bugs
This is a video that is the time equivalent of a short feature film. When you all get to the point of fixing this sort of stuff, someone's going to get paid to watch and document all this.
Massive Assailant Stingray's Thoughts on Why the Maps R Poop
He knows some stuff about maps and bugged me to put this in here via IRC. But it kind of deserves to be here. Go away MSV.
CrockRocket's Suggestion for Keeping People in the Same Lobby
He's a man with an idea and nothing will stop him. Except not looking at his idea. Look at it.
So uh. That's that. x*1000 words later.
Please help me fill in the blanks. The Community Canon Section and Stretchy Ideas section could certainly use more, but I feel I've also missed some good balance suggestions.
Edited by ticklemyiguana, 29 December 2015 - 06:33 PM.
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